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Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW #136771
03/18/08 03:01 PM
03/18/08 03:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
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TeamTeets Offline OP
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Ohio
From Yahoo Sports

Alinghi must face BMW Oracle in America's Cup

By Edith Honan 9 minutes ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Alinghi will have to defend the America's Cup against BMW Oracle after a New York judge on Tuesday threw out a request by the Swiss syndicate to reargue a court case between the two.
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BMW Oracle took Alinghi to court last year, arguing that it had chosen an illegitimate yacht club to be its main challenger and that the two had set rules that were unfairly weighted in the Swiss team's favor.

In November, New York State Supreme Court Judge Herman Cahn ruled in BMW Oracle's favor but Alinghi asked to reargue the case because it said there were flaws in the way BMW Oracle had presented its own challenge for the America's Cup, sailing's most coveted prize.

Justice Cahn said on Tuesday he would not reargue the case and refused to rule BMW Oracle's challenge invalid.

Alinghi "has not demonstrated that the court overlooked any relevant fact, misapprehended the law or otherwise mistakenly arrived at its determination," Cahn ruled.

Alinghi said the team would not appeal the ruling and proposed a race with Oracle in July 2009. The next staging of the race was due to be in Valencia, Spain next year.

STIFLING COMPETITION

The ruling means Alinghi will have to race BMW Oracle in huge catamarans with the Swiss syndicate choosing the venue.

The Alinghi crew have already been spotted practicing in catamarans off the coast of Valencia, which hosted the 32nd America's Cup.

Earlier this month, Team New Zealand joined the America's Cup legal battle, suing Alinghi and related parties for breach of contract arguing that when they signed up for the 33rd America's Cup they did so on the proviso it would be raced in 2009 in Valencia.

The Kiwis, who lost last year's Cup race to Alinghi 5-2, are also taking the Swiss to court for stifling competition when they agreed the terms of the next event with CNEV, the Spanish yacht club Justice Cahn has already ruled illegitimate.

After Alinghi and BMW Oracle face off one-on-one for the next America's Cup, other teams would only be able to get back into the racing for the 34th Cup, likely to take place in 2011 at the earliest.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW [Re: TeamTeets] #136772
03/18/08 03:26 PM
03/18/08 03:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
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fin. Offline
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fin.  Offline
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Cool! Who builds such boats? Wonder if Smyth will get a ride?

Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW [Re: fin.] #136773
03/18/08 03:48 PM
03/18/08 03:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 129
Netherlands
Genealex Offline
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Netherlands
AC racing in Catamarans, it won't be tactical then. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW [Re: Genealex] #136774
03/18/08 03:52 PM
03/18/08 03:52 PM
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It's definately happenig. I happen to know of a tornado sailor who has been hired by BMW to go teach them how to race cats.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW [Re: JACKFLASH] #136775
03/18/08 03:59 PM
03/18/08 03:59 PM
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Michigan
PTP Offline
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Right at the same time they take catamarans out of the olympics! I love it....

Last edited by PTP; 03/18/08 04:00 PM.
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW [Re: PTP] #136776
03/18/08 04:39 PM
03/18/08 04:39 PM

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Anonymous
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Come on everyone, lets all take Alinghi to court....

Everyones doing it!

I am SURE my rights were infringed somehow.... and they stifled my competition...

Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: ] #136777
03/18/08 09:52 PM
03/18/08 09:52 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
Come on everyone, lets all take Alinghi to court....

Everyones doing it!

I am SURE my rights were infringed somehow.... and they stifled my competition...


I really believe that Alinghi was about to completely wreck the AC - are you saying that the case by Ellison wasn't justified?


Jake Kohl
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: Jake] #136778
03/18/08 10:26 PM
03/18/08 10:26 PM

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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote
[are you saying that the case by Ellison wasn't justified?


not at all... i was just trying to be humorous and thought it was a sign of the times how many teams were in litigation.

Last edited by andrewscott; 03/18/08 10:28 PM.
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: ] #136779
03/18/08 10:31 PM
03/18/08 10:31 PM
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
[are you saying that the case by Ellison wasn't justified?


not at all... i just thought it was a sign of the times how many teams were in litigation


hahaa..yeah, it was piling up - New Zealand never did say who was financially backing them in their case and although they denied it, I think through some back-channel Ellison financed them toward the court case to try and push the current case off-center (i.e., Cahn needs to come out with a ruling or more painful and time-consuming cases are going to come up). I bet the New Zealand case gets dropped soon.


Jake Kohl
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: Jake] #136780
03/18/08 10:38 PM
03/18/08 10:38 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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So ok, we're going racing as soon as the legal debate over the date of the match is settled (this is going to be a bump in the road but a minor one). What kind of boats are we going to see? My early, early prediction are catamarans with center stiffening pods (that may or may not touch the water) and outer hulls with lifting foils (banana or other) and perhaps lifting foils with some sort of variable geometry. Based on what I know of current airborne foiling monsters, they really need to reach to be effective - otherwise, they're dragging a lot of hydraulics and underwater appendages.

As far as the rig goes, I think a full-on rigid wing sail is too risky...these things will have to go a long 20 miles downwind and the complication of adding downwind sails to a rigid wings are tough and risky for failure. I do think we'll see a very large chord mast with fabric sails and an array of screachers and smaller head sails working off a very solid central pod like the D35 catamarans. The big variable right now is the location of the match - will it be a light, flat, and shifty venue or a heavy, big seas, full-on venue? That part is up to Alinghi and could have considerable impact on the design parameters.

As far as the racing goes, I think someone is going to come out of the gates with an awesome machine and the other is going to be left breathing spray off the rudders and this is going to be a 3 race series decided in 2. I'm really rooting for GGYC.


Jake Kohl
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: Jake] #136781
03/19/08 04:56 AM
03/19/08 04:56 AM
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Wouter Offline
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Quote

I'm really rooting for GGYC.



I'm not. Nothing worth rooting for in Larry Ellisons team. It is all "lots of money", no interesting engineering, new concepts or even out of the box thinking. And to top it off, "money" lost in no unsignificant way last time.

Alighni is LOTS more interesting. At least they try new stuff.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/19/08 05:16 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: Wouter] #136782
03/19/08 05:04 AM
03/19/08 05:04 AM
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The Netherlands
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At least I know were I will spend my holiday next year - will be great to see these 90 ft monsters

Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: Wouter] #136783
03/19/08 05:25 AM
03/19/08 05:25 AM
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Australia
macca Offline
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Quote


I'm not. Nothing worth rooting for in Larry Ellisons team. It is all "lots of money", no interesting engineering, new concepts or even out of the box thinking. And to top it off, "money" lost in no unsignificant way last time.

Alighni is LOTS more interesting. At least they try new stuff.

Wouter


And you would have first hand knowledge of the Oracle multihull???

Don't judge it till you see it. I think you will be surprised.


________________________
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Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: macca] #136784
03/19/08 05:59 AM
03/19/08 05:59 AM
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Wouter Offline
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That is just the thing isn't it ?

Nobody has any knowlegde about it.

And as long as it isn't here we just have to go on past "achievements"

And Alighies achievements so far are alot more interesting.

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: Wouter] #136785
03/19/08 06:30 AM
03/19/08 06:30 AM
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Australia
macca Offline
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There are people with knowledge of the boat and I can tell you its a weapon.

I'm a bit lost as to why you think Alinghi try new stuff compared to BMWOR.. I think you will find that of the V5 boats that boat teams have built the US boats were more out there than the Swiss boats. Sure the Swiss boats proved to be quicker but in the "interesting" stakes BMWO has it won. A lot of the things tried were not in the public domain but they were quite innovative.

Also the BMWO team of today is markedly different in its makeup than that of old, so if you think the spots are the same I suggest you take a closer look.


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Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW [Re: JACKFLASH] #136786
03/19/08 06:31 AM
03/19/08 06:31 AM
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Melbourne, Australia
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Quote
It's definately happenig. I happen to know of a tornado sailor who has been hired by BMW to go teach them how to race cats.


He is not a bad A Class sailor also <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: macca] #136787
03/19/08 06:34 AM
03/19/08 06:34 AM
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Sailing Anarchy keeps talking about a giant BMW/Oracle trimaran, is it gonna be tri vs cat?

Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: macca] #136788
03/19/08 06:53 AM
03/19/08 06:53 AM
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Wouter Offline
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Quote

There are people with knowledge of the boat and I can tell you its a weapon.


No you can't because it has not been tested against its equal rivals yet.

We had the same amount of rumours about playstation back in the day but the Ollier cats made short work of that.

Lets face it Macca you don't know either (as no-one does) and are just guessing.

But I'm ready to be surprised !



With respect to the other points :

"Sure the Swiss boats proved to be quicker ..."

I rest my case.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/19/08 06:54 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM [Re: Wouter] #136789
03/19/08 08:51 AM
03/19/08 08:51 AM
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Portland, Maine
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The reason most people are rooting for GGYC is because of Alinghi's [censored] tactics to try and commandeer the cup for the forseeable future. It has nothing to do (at least for me) with whose boat is the most innovative.

btw. macca ftw.

Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW [Re: PTP] #136790
03/19/08 08:57 AM
03/19/08 08:57 AM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
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Right at the same time they take catamarans out of the olympics! I love it....

Me, too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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