| Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW #136771 03/18/08 03:01 PM 03/18/08 03:01 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 215 Ohio TeamTeets OP
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Posts: 215 Ohio | From Yahoo Sports Alinghi must face BMW Oracle in America's Cup By Edith Honan 9 minutes ago NEW YORK (Reuters) - Alinghi will have to defend the America's Cup against BMW Oracle after a New York judge on Tuesday threw out a request by the Swiss syndicate to reargue a court case between the two. ADVERTISEMENT BMW Oracle took Alinghi to court last year, arguing that it had chosen an illegitimate yacht club to be its main challenger and that the two had set rules that were unfairly weighted in the Swiss team's favor. In November, New York State Supreme Court Judge Herman Cahn ruled in BMW Oracle's favor but Alinghi asked to reargue the case because it said there were flaws in the way BMW Oracle had presented its own challenge for the America's Cup, sailing's most coveted prize. Justice Cahn said on Tuesday he would not reargue the case and refused to rule BMW Oracle's challenge invalid. Alinghi "has not demonstrated that the court overlooked any relevant fact, misapprehended the law or otherwise mistakenly arrived at its determination," Cahn ruled. Alinghi said the team would not appeal the ruling and proposed a race with Oracle in July 2009. The next staging of the race was due to be in Valencia, Spain next year. STIFLING COMPETITION The ruling means Alinghi will have to race BMW Oracle in huge catamarans with the Swiss syndicate choosing the venue. The Alinghi crew have already been spotted practicing in catamarans off the coast of Valencia, which hosted the 32nd America's Cup. Earlier this month, Team New Zealand joined the America's Cup legal battle, suing Alinghi and related parties for breach of contract arguing that when they signed up for the 33rd America's Cup they did so on the proviso it would be raced in 2009 in Valencia. The Kiwis, who lost last year's Cup race to Alinghi 5-2, are also taking the Swiss to court for stifling competition when they agreed the terms of the next event with CNEV, the Spanish yacht club Justice Cahn has already ruled illegitimate. After Alinghi and BMW Oracle face off one-on-one for the next America's Cup, other teams would only be able to get back into the racing for the 34th Cup, likely to take place in 2011 at the earliest.
Mike, Ohio Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
| | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW
[Re: Genealex]
#136774 03/18/08 03:52 PM 03/18/08 03:52 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 291 JACKFLASH
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Posts: 291 | It's definately happenig. I happen to know of a tornado sailor who has been hired by BMW to go teach them how to race cats.
Collin Casey Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
| | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW
[Re: JACKFLASH]
#136775 03/18/08 03:59 PM 03/18/08 03:59 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP
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Posts: 2,921 Michigan | Right at the same time they take catamarans out of the olympics! I love it....
Last edited by PTP; 03/18/08 04:00 PM.
| | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW
[Re: PTP]
#136776 03/18/08 04:39 PM 03/18/08 04:39 PM | Anonymous
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Unregistered | Come on everyone, lets all take Alinghi to court....
Everyones doing it!
I am SURE my rights were infringed somehow.... and they stifled my competition... | | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM
[Re: ]
#136777 03/18/08 09:52 PM 03/18/08 09:52 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Come on everyone, lets all take Alinghi to court....
Everyones doing it!
I am SURE my rights were infringed somehow.... and they stifled my competition... I really believe that Alinghi was about to completely wreck the AC - are you saying that the case by Ellison wasn't justified?
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM
[Re: Jake]
#136778 03/18/08 10:26 PM 03/18/08 10:26 PM | Anonymous
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Unregistered | [are you saying that the case by Ellison wasn't justified? not at all... i was just trying to be humorous and thought it was a sign of the times how many teams were in litigation.
Last edited by andrewscott; 03/18/08 10:28 PM.
| | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM
[Re: ]
#136779 03/18/08 10:31 PM 03/18/08 10:31 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | [are you saying that the case by Ellison wasn't justified? not at all... i just thought it was a sign of the times how many teams were in litigation hahaa..yeah, it was piling up - New Zealand never did say who was financially backing them in their case and although they denied it, I think through some back-channel Ellison financed them toward the court case to try and push the current case off-center (i.e., Cahn needs to come out with a ruling or more painful and time-consuming cases are going to come up). I bet the New Zealand case gets dropped soon.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM
[Re: Jake]
#136780 03/18/08 10:38 PM 03/18/08 10:38 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | So ok, we're going racing as soon as the legal debate over the date of the match is settled (this is going to be a bump in the road but a minor one). What kind of boats are we going to see? My early, early prediction are catamarans with center stiffening pods (that may or may not touch the water) and outer hulls with lifting foils (banana or other) and perhaps lifting foils with some sort of variable geometry. Based on what I know of current airborne foiling monsters, they really need to reach to be effective - otherwise, they're dragging a lot of hydraulics and underwater appendages.
As far as the rig goes, I think a full-on rigid wing sail is too risky...these things will have to go a long 20 miles downwind and the complication of adding downwind sails to a rigid wings are tough and risky for failure. I do think we'll see a very large chord mast with fabric sails and an array of screachers and smaller head sails working off a very solid central pod like the D35 catamarans. The big variable right now is the location of the match - will it be a light, flat, and shifty venue or a heavy, big seas, full-on venue? That part is up to Alinghi and could have considerable impact on the design parameters.
As far as the racing goes, I think someone is going to come out of the gates with an awesome machine and the other is going to be left breathing spray off the rudders and this is going to be a 3 race series decided in 2. I'm really rooting for GGYC.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM
[Re: Jake]
#136781 03/19/08 04:56 AM 03/19/08 04:56 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | I'm really rooting for GGYC.
I'm not. Nothing worth rooting for in Larry Ellisons team. It is all "lots of money", no interesting engineering, new concepts or even out of the box thinking. And to top it off, "money" lost in no unsignificant way last time. Alighni is LOTS more interesting. At least they try new stuff. Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 03/19/08 05:16 AM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM
[Re: Wouter]
#136783 03/19/08 05:25 AM 03/19/08 05:25 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,021 Australia macca
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I'm not. Nothing worth rooting for in Larry Ellisons team. It is all "lots of money", no interesting engineering, new concepts or even out of the box thinking. And to top it off, "money" lost in no unsignificant way last time.
Alighni is LOTS more interesting. At least they try new stuff.
Wouter
And you would have first hand knowledge of the Oracle multihull??? Don't judge it till you see it. I think you will be surprised. | | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM
[Re: macca]
#136784 03/19/08 05:59 AM 03/19/08 05:59 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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That is just the thing isn't it ?
Nobody has any knowlegde about it.
And as long as it isn't here we just have to go on past "achievements"
And Alighies achievements so far are alot more interesting.
A leopard doesn't change its spots.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW
[Re: JACKFLASH]
#136786 03/19/08 06:31 AM 03/19/08 06:31 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
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Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia | It's definately happenig. I happen to know of a tornado sailor who has been hired by BMW to go teach them how to race cats. He is not a bad A Class sailor also <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BM
[Re: macca]
#136788 03/19/08 06:53 AM 03/19/08 06:53 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | There are people with knowledge of the boat and I can tell you its a weapon.
No you can't because it has not been tested against its equal rivals yet. We had the same amount of rumours about playstation back in the day but the Ollier cats made short work of that. Lets face it Macca you don't know either (as no-one does) and are just guessing. But I'm ready to be surprised ! With respect to the other points : "Sure the Swiss boats proved to be quicker ..." I rest my case. Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 03/19/08 06:54 AM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW
[Re: PTP]
#136790 03/19/08 08:57 AM 03/19/08 08:57 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Right at the same time they take catamarans out of the olympics! I love it.... Me, too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> | | |
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