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Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #156564
10/08/08 03:57 PM
10/08/08 03:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 164
I
I20RI Offline
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I

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There is gonna be at least one HT at the Buzzelli Multihull legacy regatta in sarasota the 17-19th. I'll be sailing it with Mark Murray. It's a great boat once you figure it out and when sailed well hangs with the I20's just fine.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: I20RI] #156565
10/08/08 04:18 PM
10/08/08 04:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
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Atlanta
And Mr Murray is fast. Have fun, tell Mark I send my best.

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: I20RI] #156566
10/08/08 04:39 PM
10/08/08 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote
There is gonna be at least one HT at the Buzzelli Multihull legacy regatta in sarasota the 17-19th. I'll be sailing it with Mark Murray. It's a great boat once you figure it out and when sailed well hangs with the I20's just fine.


I'll be there with the Blade. Are you guys gonna do the open water thing on Friday?

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: I20RI] #156567
10/08/08 05:04 PM
10/08/08 05:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 2,921
Michigan
sweet. I hope you guys do well. I raced with Mark a decent amount a year ago or so. I love sailing with him on the HT when the wind is up.... always seems to have things under control.

Last edited by PTP; 10/08/08 05:05 PM.
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Jalani] #156568
10/08/08 07:29 PM
10/08/08 07:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Cheshirecatman Offline
enthusiast
Cheshirecatman  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Quote
How many have you had Bill?

I always thought the 18HT was a cool boat. John_P built a Stealth 18HT that looked and sailed superb and I think he's still got the moulds. Do you think the 18HT Class could be revived? (As in class association, racing circuit, nationals, new boat sales etc.)

Surely there must be a market for a lightweight, medium-tech 18 footer?


Pic of one of JP's F18HT Berserka's

http://1.2.3.12/bmi/www.geocities.com/stealthmarine2002/cal20low.JPG

Cheshirecatman

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Cheshirecatman] #156569
10/08/08 08:48 PM
10/08/08 08:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Essex, UK
[Linked Image]


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: What Happened to.......... [Re: bvining] #156570
10/09/08 04:42 AM
10/09/08 04:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Quote

and financial problems, but thats second hand



I got first hand info from the parties who are (still) the plaintiffs.

Now I'm not saying that things happened this way intentionally, just that at one point no more boats were ever going to be shipped to him even if the builders were offered "what ever price" for their products ... (connect the dots yourself).


But Bill is right, it is better to focus on the initial questions.

Personally, I feel the HT class suffered very badly from over dependence on a single person and the total lost of trust in the class due to all the issues that surfaced at the time of the last planned Worrell 1000. It collapsed like the stock market is doing now; lost of trust meant that even good assets were regarded as devoid of value. The class has a problem right now that no boats are locally made or imported. The latter will not be corrected anytime soon with the US$ having taken a dive over the last few years and some builders having been burned.

Still, I'm sure the class can be revived if some volunteers set themselves to it. But like Bill says the boat has strong points and some serious weakpoints. The newer HT designs in Europe have gone some way in correcting these but these won't be making it to the USA. The US bim HT's (Jav-2's) is not a distance racer, the rearbeam slaps in chop, simple (italian) stuff like shackles break, it has got a mediocre rudder (kickup) system and it has bows that are easily overpowered (mainly lacks freeboard here). The newer HT's (in EU) are still not much of a Texel, Tybee, Worrell like distance racer but all other issues have been adressed. I must add here that Andreas does Texel with his HT's and does well indeed, but the numbers are simply against him especially when there are only short upwind legs and lots of wind.

With the spread in HT's over the nation I don't see much US HT's class racing getting of the ground, especially with the total number of imported boats. However, the boat is a capable open class bouy race in light winds and can be restarted that way. Will take alot of effort of a group of volunteers as they first have to live down the bad rep, but it can be done !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: bvining] #156571
10/09/08 04:44 AM
10/09/08 04:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Quote

Good news, I've been getting emails all morning from HT owners that want to get together and race.



Well, go for it !

You guys won't be getting many more chances to kick start the class again in the future !

Cast the iron when it is hot !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #156572
10/09/08 04:49 AM
10/09/08 04:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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North-West Europe


Ehh Rolf,

A boat with these specs (especially mast height) absolutely NEEDS to have a carbon mast; an item that is very expensive in the USA for any homebuilder. Even Nacra has been replacing the carbon mast on their F17's and also I-20's with aly because of prohibitive high costs.

This is a serious drawback of the HT concept and class when it comes down to the USA.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Wouter] #156573
10/09/08 05:00 AM
10/09/08 05:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
C
Catfan Offline
enthusiast
Catfan  Offline
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C

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
The latest with regard with the activity of the 18HT class in Europe.
The Euro 2008 was sailed in Porto Corsini near Ravanna (Italy).
23 teams from 3 countries (Italy, Switzerland and Poland)
competed.
It was dominated by the BIMARE X-2 which got the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th place. The second was Andy Lutz on an Eagle 18HT. There were also Ventilos and Mattias.
For results and photos have a look at:
http://www.18ht.ch/results.html
and
http://open.bst.ch/ALutz/ost/galleries/Euro08/Highlights/WWW/index.html

The BIMARE X-2 is on sale at EUR 16,000 (a quotation lower than the one of the most F18is). Ventilos and Mattias are more expensive and the Eagle is the most expensive of all (not far from EUR 20,000).
With regard to the PN:
in 2003 the Javelin 2 was given the same PN of the I20

P.S.
For jpoulsen check yr post. Is is too full to receive new private messages

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Wouter] #156574
10/09/08 06:20 AM
10/09/08 06:20 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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West coast of Norway
Quote


Ehh Rolf,

A boat with these specs (especially mast height) absolutely NEEDS to have a carbon mast; an item that is very expensive in the USA for any homebuilder. Even Nacra has been replacing the carbon mast on their F17's and also I-20's with aly because of prohibitive high costs.

This is a serious drawback of the HT concept and class when it comes down to the USA.



Carbon schmarbon..

Yes a carbon mast makes sense. Yes it costs money. Yes it costs more than an alu extrusion. Who knows what will happen with carbon fiber prices in the future. People are still building and buying A-cats with carbon masts so it is not unobtainable. There are even one-offs with carbon masts becouse they are the boats somebody really wants. Homebuilding masts have been done for all kind of boats up to 60foot trimarans. Carbon can be sourced at affordable prices, we just bought 36kgs of 400gsm weave and uni for US$1900 (I am going to protect and tend to that source). Who cares about all this if they have locked their sights on the 18HT.
I think the 18HT can still be an active class with a good future in the USA, just takes that one person who gets things started. I am certainly not going to step out in front of things and proclaim why any initatives are doomed and point out why repeatedly. No class needs or deserves that. Instead I am going to cheer any initatives that gets more cats on the water.

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Catfan] #156575
10/09/08 10:17 AM
10/09/08 10:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 164
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I20RI Offline
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I

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 164
I am not getting in from RI until friday afternoon so unless Mark finds another crew for that day (or wants to do it himself) we wont be doing the distance race, see you there!

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: bvining] #156576
10/09/08 12:10 PM
10/09/08 12:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 63
jdaf31r Offline
journeyman
jdaf31r  Offline
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Posts: 63
Quote
I widened mine and single hand it all the time.

Its a blast.


I havent widened mine and sail it all summer single and double handed.

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #156577
10/10/08 07:08 AM
10/10/08 07:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 267
Switzerland
alutz Offline
enthusiast
alutz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 267
Switzerland
Quote
I think the 18HT can still be an active class with a good future in the USA, just takes that one person who gets things started.


Thanks Rolf!

If someone is interested to do that, just mail me, I'm glad if I can help!
Here in southern/central Europe, the class is definitly progressing (slowly but steady).
And we have two nice little regatta circuits (one in Italy and one in Switzerland) with a good participation of HTs

all the best


Andi, Switzerland
Team OST
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: alutz] #156578
10/10/08 10:09 AM
10/10/08 10:09 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
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BrianK  Offline
addict

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
Woot,

You are indeed correct on all points. Please keep explaining things to these morons until they finally get it. I know you've been trying for years, but dont worry, it took W almost 8 to straighten us out, so hang in there.

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: jdaf31r] #156579
10/10/08 10:14 AM
10/10/08 10:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15
UT
P
Phaedrus Offline
stranger
Phaedrus  Offline
stranger
P

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15
UT
how wide did you make it?


P16
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: BrianK] #156580
10/10/08 02:35 PM
10/10/08 02:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote
Woot,

You are indeed correct on all points. Please keep explaining things to these morons until they finally get it. I know you've been trying for years, but dont worry, it took W almost 8 to straighten us out, so hang in there.


That sounds political. . .

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: fin.] #156581
10/10/08 02:39 PM
10/10/08 02:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Quote
That sounds political. . .


Ya think?!?!??!?!

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Wouter] #156582
10/10/08 05:12 PM
10/10/08 05:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Quote


Ehh Rolf,

A boat with these specs (especially mast height) absolutely NEEDS to have a carbon mast; an item that is very expensive in the USA for any homebuilder. Even Nacra has been replacing the carbon mast on their F17's and also I-20's with aly because of prohibitive high costs.

This is a serious drawback of the HT concept and class when it comes down to the USA.

Wouter


Hey wouter,
Since you seem to have the inside scoop on All that is catamarans, how 'bout tellin' me how many aluminum masted I-20s there are in Europe? How 'bout the US of A? And when did this Nacra switch to "aly" happen?
Inquiring minds wanna know.

Todd
"Seppo,Gringo,Infidel,Extraordinaire"


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: fin.] #156583
10/11/08 07:42 AM
10/11/08 07:42 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
addict
BrianK  Offline
addict

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
Quote
Quote
Woot,

You are indeed correct on all points. Please keep explaining things to these morons until they finally get it. I know you've been trying for years, but dont worry, it took W almost 8 to straighten us out, so hang in there.


That sounds political. . .


Really wasn't meant to be, he was the first one that came to mind for Woot comparison. Where ya been Pete?

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