| Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: Chris9]
#186615 07/31/09 06:43 AM 07/31/09 06:43 AM |
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 120 Brett Goodall
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 120 | Nope.... There wont be new new "version" of the Capricorn... or even a new Capricorn.
Last edited by AUS-CAT; 07/31/09 06:44 AM.
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: Dan_Delave]
#186646 07/31/09 11:05 AM 07/31/09 11:05 AM |
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,584 +31NL Tony_F18
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584 +31NL | AUS-CAT has 2 posts, registered 7 days ago. We have never heard from this person before. Maybe just a rabble-rouser. In the F16 forum he already told us he works for AHPC. | | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: Tony_F18]
#186654 07/31/09 12:00 PM 07/31/09 12:00 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | Hi Guys -
Greg Goodall has been talking quite openly about development for both the Viper and the Capricorn. Greg told me over a year ago and in the company of several other F18 sailors that he was making some changes to the Capricorn which included raising the back beam 40mm or so, and possibly moving the back beam aft a touch based on his son, Brett's, suggestion that the Viper's back beam placement made it easier to trap out downhill. Like with the previous boats out of Greg's shop, there will be testing, and it will take a long time before changes like that hit the market - I seem to recall Greg saying 2011. In the mean time, there have been quite a few improvements to the Capricorn already - I had a 2006 and I noted several changes when I got a 2009. The mast base is different, the diamond wires are internal, the rudder shape is updated, there is a new mainsail and spinnaker cut that required me to change how I sail a little bit, and Greg eliminated some blocks here and there in favor of finished thimbles instead.
Surely everyone who sees any of the F18s out of the box from year to year can agree that there are changes each season. It is the nature of the class and something that you either like (as I do) or dislike. If you want a boat, buy it. You can wait for next season's innovations or you can race this season and follow the trend next season. My experience has always been that stick time this season will make you far faster than buying the latest-greatest next season - the changes are just too subtle. There hasn't been any kind of an obsoleting leap forward in the class - fer Chrissake, the Tiger's still doing just fine in the right hands and it's old enough to drive a car in the US.
Anyway - it is awfully easy to say there is a new Cap on the way. That has been true since the first one was built. And Greg doesn't make a secret of these things - buy him a beer, or better, a rummie. Stick it in his hand and stand back. You're not likely to understand everything he says, but he'll try to explain it... freakin' engineers.
As far as boats available in the US? I think there is only one 2009 left for sale in CT. We had three 2009s come into CA and they were pre-sold. One stayed here a bit after the buyer took delivery from the East Coast stock instead due to some scheduled travel constraints, but that one is now gone, too. The idea that dealers are trying to keep secrets to unload backed-up supplies just doesn't apply to AHPC.
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: John Williams]
#186667 07/31/09 05:42 PM 07/31/09 05:42 PM |
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 1,037 Central California ejpoulsen
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037 Central California | Great post John.
I haven't really followed AHPC's F18 program, but I know in all my dealings with them they've been very open and insightful. They are only satisfied delivering products that are fully developed. In the past I've picked up the phone and called Greg Goodall, and he's always been very helpful and insightful; I'm sure anyone interested in their boats could do likewise.
Eric Poulsen A-class USA 203 Ultimate 20 Central California
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: Brett Goodall]
#186677 07/31/09 07:46 PM 07/31/09 07:46 PM |
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 749 Santa Cruz, CA SurfCityRacing
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749 Santa Cruz, CA | Hey AUS CAT, rabble rouser, welcome to the forums! It's always good to add some legit input to what can be a spiraling rumormill. I can say that a few years back Jim Boyer stayed at my house for a couple of days and I got a good feel for what makes AHPC tick. In my opinion Greg and the employees at AHPC would never keep any secrets or anything like that. They are straight-up, solid business people, phenomenal sailors, and great engineers/ builders. They will openly and honestly discuss any shortcomings of their designs and build quality (which from what I've seen is top-notch). Boyer was here (2004?) discussing with me the potential of Surf City importing their boats to the U.S., which didn't happen because I had just had opened my shop and didn't have much $$. Every time I talk with Greg on the phone he is free with his time and open with his ideas. AUS, if you see JB, tell him that I'm looking for a career change... maybe in the rainwater catchemnt business. Hope he's well. Haven't talked to him in years. Anyway, AHPC is good. J
Last edited by SurfCityRacing; 07/31/09 08:03 PM.
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: SurfCityRacing]
#186678 07/31/09 07:54 PM 07/31/09 07:54 PM |
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 757 japan erice
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757 japan | "Nope.... There wont be new new "version" of the Capricorn... or even a new Capricorn."
i would take that post to mean the new boat won't be called a capricorn...
eric e 1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158 2009 weta tri - 294
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: SurfCityRacing]
#186682 07/31/09 08:11 PM 07/31/09 08:11 PM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,383 Kingston SE South Australia JeffS
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veteran
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383 Kingston SE South Australia | I've been looking closely at the F18's and been doing serious snooping. I have spoken to a sailor who has definately ordered a new Capricorn. It does make me hesitate as I wouldnt like to be trying to sell my Tiger now though part of that problem may be the price I've heard for their masts sails etc. On the service side I've always had good service from Nacra and AHPC, Hobie still havn't got back to me with a quote for their sails but thats probably because my local Hobie dealer doesn't give a **** about cats but loves canoes. Fortunately Boyers not with AHPC anymore so we can assume a replacement hull can be found if ones needed. regards
Jeff Southall Current boats Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider Nacra 18 Square Arrow 1576
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: JeffS]
#186685 07/31/09 08:33 PM 07/31/09 08:33 PM | Scarecrow
Unregistered
| Scarecrow
Unregistered | Jeff,
don't be hesitant the bottom has already fallen out of the Tiger and Nacra F18 prices and like your 5.7 its already fully devalued so if you bought either you'd be selling right back into the same market and unless you've all of a sudden become Glenn Ashby's closest rivel the choice of F18 won't effect your results. I wouldn't bother talking to Hobie about sails. When we replaced our Tiger sails I was able to get Main, Jib and Battens from Gashby for the same price Hobie wanted for a main without battens and I'm sure they were superior sails (didn't improve my sailing though). The only reason to buy Hobie sails is the to go to the Hobie nationals and I'm sure if you hunted around you could find some reasonable 2nd hand ones.
A new Capricorn / Viper F18 would introduce a new viable second hand class to the entry level market as everyone sold off their old boats. So in my book bring on the new Cap, it can only be good for the F18 class. | | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: ]
#187009 08/04/09 08:50 PM 08/04/09 08:50 PM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,383 Kingston SE South Australia JeffS
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veteran
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383 Kingston SE South Australia | If I ever sail with Ashby he’ll be smart enough to stay well away as he’s lapping me . I’m using the sail prices as an indication of cost of parts for the different boats as that’s what I lost on the 5.8, it’s probably my location that makes the Capricorn a more viable boat Tiger $6947, Infusion $7450 and Capricorn $3883. Sorry my earlier post was grumpy must be the lack of sailing, end of hijack
Jeff Southall Current boats Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider Nacra 18 Square Arrow 1576
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: JeffS]
#187023 08/05/09 12:03 AM 08/05/09 12:03 AM | Scarecrow
Unregistered
| Scarecrow
Unregistered | Jeff,
I'd get quotes for masts and centre boards instead. As mentioned already with F18 you can get your sails everywhere | | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: ]
#187025 08/05/09 12:44 AM 08/05/09 12:44 AM |
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 586 Hobart, Tasmania, Oz. Dazz
addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586 Hobart, Tasmania, Oz. | My friend bent his tiger mast.. the hobie dealer would only sell him a full mast rigged... just a touch over $4k.(which he did pay)
If that was a capricorn AHPC sell the section for a little over $1.1k
Hobie have some nutty ideas.... obviosly not my choice of "dealer support"
C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design "Darph Bobo"
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: Dazz]
#187031 08/05/09 04:57 AM 08/05/09 04:57 AM | Scarecrow
Unregistered
| Scarecrow
Unregistered | I would have taken the $4K from the insurance and bought the capricorn mast and a new main to suit. | | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: ]
#187032 08/05/09 05:38 AM 08/05/09 05:38 AM |
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 586 Hobart, Tasmania, Oz. Dazz
addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586 Hobart, Tasmania, Oz. | No arguments here Scarecrow! but he had a brand new hobie mainsail and the cap mast would not have matched it.
C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design "Darph Bobo"
| | | Re: F18 - New . . .
[Re: Keith]
#187484 08/10/09 04:53 AM 08/10/09 04:53 AM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,383 Kingston SE South Australia JeffS
veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383 Kingston SE South Australia | I'm pretty sure Chris already crews on a Tiger and he must be happy with the boat so I can't blame him for pushing it. We havn't heard from Aus-Cat, if he works with AHPC he would know the first batch of new Capricorn's will be out in time for our summer. regards
Jeff Southall Current boats Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider Nacra 18 Square Arrow 1576
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