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F18 - New . . . #186604
07/30/09 08:58 PM
07/30/09 08:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline OP
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Chris9  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
version of the Capricorn?


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Chris9] #186615
07/31/09 06:43 AM
07/31/09 06:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 120
B
Brett Goodall Offline
member
Brett Goodall  Offline
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B

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 120
Nope.... There wont be new new "version" of the Capricorn... or even a new Capricorn.

Last edited by AUS-CAT; 07/31/09 06:44 AM.
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Brett Goodall] #186643
07/31/09 10:53 AM
07/31/09 10:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline OP
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Chris9  Offline OP
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Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Are you someone in the know? If so, how so? Another forum says there are new molds delivered. Maybe they. . .


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Chris9] #186644
07/31/09 10:59 AM
07/31/09 10:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
...don't want us to know a new version is coming because they are afraid that people will wait for it and not buy the one currently sitting at the dealership?
Its either that or...

Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Chris9] #186645
07/31/09 10:59 AM
07/31/09 10:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
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Dan_Delave  Offline
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Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
AUS-CAT has 2 posts, registered 7 days ago. We have never heard from this person before. Maybe just a rabble-rouser.

Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Dan_Delave] #186646
07/31/09 11:05 AM
07/31/09 11:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Originally Posted by Dan_Delave
AUS-CAT has 2 posts, registered 7 days ago. We have never heard from this person before. Maybe just a rabble-rouser.

In the F16 forum he already told us he works for AHPC.

Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Tony_F18] #186654
07/31/09 12:00 PM
07/31/09 12:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Hi Guys -

Greg Goodall has been talking quite openly about development for both the Viper and the Capricorn. Greg told me over a year ago and in the company of several other F18 sailors that he was making some changes to the Capricorn which included raising the back beam 40mm or so, and possibly moving the back beam aft a touch based on his son, Brett's, suggestion that the Viper's back beam placement made it easier to trap out downhill. Like with the previous boats out of Greg's shop, there will be testing, and it will take a long time before changes like that hit the market - I seem to recall Greg saying 2011. In the mean time, there have been quite a few improvements to the Capricorn already - I had a 2006 and I noted several changes when I got a 2009. The mast base is different, the diamond wires are internal, the rudder shape is updated, there is a new mainsail and spinnaker cut that required me to change how I sail a little bit, and Greg eliminated some blocks here and there in favor of finished thimbles instead.

Surely everyone who sees any of the F18s out of the box from year to year can agree that there are changes each season. It is the nature of the class and something that you either like (as I do) or dislike. If you want a boat, buy it. You can wait for next season's innovations or you can race this season and follow the trend next season. My experience has always been that stick time this season will make you far faster than buying the latest-greatest next season - the changes are just too subtle. There hasn't been any kind of an obsoleting leap forward in the class - fer Chrissake, the Tiger's still doing just fine in the right hands and it's old enough to drive a car in the US.

Anyway - it is awfully easy to say there is a new Cap on the way. That has been true since the first one was built. And Greg doesn't make a secret of these things - buy him a beer, or better, a rummie. Stick it in his hand and stand back. You're not likely to understand everything he says, but he'll try to explain it... freakin' engineers.

As far as boats available in the US? I think there is only one 2009 left for sale in CT. We had three 2009s come into CA and they were pre-sold. One stayed here a bit after the buyer took delivery from the East Coast stock instead due to some scheduled travel constraints, but that one is now gone, too. The idea that dealers are trying to keep secrets to unload backed-up supplies just doesn't apply to AHPC.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: John Williams] #186667
07/31/09 05:42 PM
07/31/09 05:42 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Great post John.

I haven't really followed AHPC's F18 program, but I know in all my dealings with them they've been very open and insightful. They are only satisfied delivering products that are fully developed. In the past I've picked up the phone and called Greg Goodall, and he's always been very helpful and insightful; I'm sure anyone interested in their boats could do likewise.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: ejpoulsen] #186675
07/31/09 07:08 PM
07/31/09 07:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 120
B
Brett Goodall Offline
member
Brett Goodall  Offline
member
B

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 120
Rabble-rouser... for sure, but I also dabble in sailing and boat design for AHPC.

I'll just second what John said, and say that when we start testing something new it wont take long for you guys to see is... there are eyes everywhere and there's plenty of guys on these forums that sail on the same patches of water as us and they'll keep you updated smile

Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Brett Goodall] #186677
07/31/09 07:46 PM
07/31/09 07:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
SurfCityRacing Offline
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SurfCityRacing  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
Hey AUS CAT, rabble rouser, welcome to the forums! It's always good to add some legit input to what can be a spiraling rumormill.

I can say that a few years back Jim Boyer stayed at my house for a couple of days and I got a good feel for what makes AHPC tick. In my opinion Greg and the employees at AHPC would never keep any secrets or anything like that. They are straight-up, solid business people, phenomenal sailors, and great engineers/ builders. They will openly and honestly discuss any shortcomings of their designs and build quality (which from what I've seen is top-notch).

Boyer was here (2004?) discussing with me the potential of Surf City importing their boats to the U.S., which didn't happen because I had just had opened my shop and didn't have much $$.

Every time I talk with Greg on the phone he is free with his time and open with his ideas.

AUS, if you see JB, tell him that I'm looking for a career change... maybe in the rainwater catchemnt business. grin Hope he's well. Haven't talked to him in years.

Anyway, AHPC is good.

J

Last edited by SurfCityRacing; 07/31/09 08:03 PM.
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: SurfCityRacing] #186678
07/31/09 07:54 PM
07/31/09 07:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
erice Offline
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erice  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
"Nope.... There wont be new new "version" of the Capricorn... or even a new Capricorn."

i would take that post to mean the new boat won't be called a capricorn...


eric e
1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158
2009 weta tri - 294
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: SurfCityRacing] #186682
07/31/09 08:11 PM
07/31/09 08:11 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
I've been looking closely at the F18's and been doing serious snooping. I have spoken to a sailor who has definately ordered a new Capricorn. It does make me hesitate as I wouldnt like to be trying to sell my Tiger now though part of that problem may be the price I've heard for their masts sails etc. On the service side I've always had good service from Nacra and AHPC, Hobie still havn't got back to me with a quote for their sails but thats probably because my local Hobie dealer doesn't give a **** about cats but loves canoes.
Fortunately Boyers not with AHPC anymore so we can assume a replacement hull can be found if ones needed.
regards


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: JeffS] #186685
07/31/09 08:33 PM
07/31/09 08:33 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Jeff,

don't be hesitant the bottom has already fallen out of the Tiger and Nacra F18 prices and like your 5.7 its already fully devalued so if you bought either you'd be selling right back into the same market and unless you've all of a sudden become Glenn Ashby's closest rivel the choice of F18 won't effect your results. I wouldn't bother talking to Hobie about sails. When we replaced our Tiger sails I was able to get Main, Jib and Battens from Gashby for the same price Hobie wanted for a main without battens and I'm sure they were superior sails (didn't improve my sailing though). The only reason to buy Hobie sails is the to go to the Hobie nationals and I'm sure if you hunted around you could find some reasonable 2nd hand ones.

A new Capricorn / Viper F18 would introduce a new viable second hand class to the entry level market as everyone sold off their old boats. So in my book bring on the new Cap, it can only be good for the F18 class.

Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: ] #187009
08/04/09 08:50 PM
08/04/09 08:50 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
veteran
JeffS  Offline
veteran

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
If I ever sail with Ashby he’ll be smart enough to stay well away as he’s lapping me laugh. I’m using the sail prices as an indication of cost of parts for the different boats as that’s what I lost on the 5.8, it’s probably my location that makes the Capricorn a more viable boat Tiger $6947, Infusion $7450 and Capricorn $3883. Sorry my earlier post was grumpy must be the lack of sailing, end of hijack


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: JeffS] #187023
08/05/09 12:03 AM
08/05/09 12:03 AM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Jeff,

I'd get quotes for masts and centre boards instead. As mentioned already with F18 you can get your sails everywhere

Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: ] #187025
08/05/09 12:44 AM
08/05/09 12:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
addict
Dazz  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
My friend bent his tiger mast.. the hobie dealer would only sell him a full mast rigged... just a touch over $4k.(which he did pay)

If that was a capricorn AHPC sell the section for a little over $1.1k

Hobie have some nutty ideas.... obviosly not my choice of "dealer support"


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Dazz] #187031
08/05/09 04:57 AM
08/05/09 04:57 AM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



I would have taken the $4K from the insurance and bought the capricorn mast and a new main to suit.

Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: ] #187032
08/05/09 05:38 AM
08/05/09 05:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
addict
Dazz  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
No arguments here Scarecrow! but he had a brand new hobie mainsail and the cap mast would not have matched it.


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Chris9] #187480
08/10/09 12:32 AM
08/10/09 12:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Getting an F-18 Chris?

Re: F18 - New . . . [Re: Keith] #187484
08/10/09 04:53 AM
08/10/09 04:53 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
veteran
JeffS  Offline
veteran

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
I'm pretty sure Chris already crews on a Tiger and he must be happy with the boat so I can't blame him for pushing it.
We havn't heard from Aus-Cat, if he works with AHPC he would know the first batch of new Capricorn's will be out in time for our summer.
regards


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
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