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Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Tony_F18] #193803
10/17/09 01:30 PM
10/17/09 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Originally Posted by pitchpoledave

Pete Melvin:”It is not a coincidence that the hull shape of the new F20 Carbon shows resemblance with the floats of the AC boat
[Linked Image]

I cant see any resemblance to DogZilla, or is it just me?


No, but I see a WildCat chine . . .

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: mbounds] #193804
10/17/09 01:41 PM
10/17/09 01:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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And those boards look exactly like the Marstrom ones.

Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: mbounds] #193806
10/17/09 01:55 PM
10/17/09 01:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by mbounds
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Originally Posted by pitchpoledave

Pete Melvin:”It is not a coincidence that the hull shape of the new F20 Carbon shows resemblance with the floats of the AC boat
[Linked Image]

I cant see any resemblance to DogZilla, or is it just me?


No, but I see a WildCat chine . . .


One interesting detail is the airfoil shaped snuffer.

Apart from that, I see an incomplete and rather conventional design, with curved asymmetrical foils replacing normal boards.

No rudder foil or other means to control boat attitude. Also, no indication of an angle of attack control for the foils.

I guess M&M still don't believe in (or don't understand) the S foil, which makes more sense for a cat than the C foils seen on this boat.


Luiz
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Luiz] #193807
10/17/09 02:21 PM
10/17/09 02:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
Kennethsf Offline
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The Netherlands
Originally Posted by Luiz
Originally Posted by mbounds
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Originally Posted by pitchpoledave

Pete Melvin:”It is not a coincidence that the hull shape of the new F20 Carbon shows resemblance with the floats of the AC boat
[Linked Image]

I cant see any resemblance to DogZilla, or is it just me?


No, but I see a WildCat chine . . .

the wildcat has a sprayrail, that tries t hold back the spray, this shape redirects the water/spray away from the bow


One interesting detail is the airfoil shaped snuffer.

Apart from that, I see an incomplete and rather conventional design, with curved asymmetrical foils replacing normal boards.

No rudder foil or other means to control boat attitude. Also, no indication of an angle of attack control for the foils.

wieght distribution of helm and crew are responsible for this

I guess M&M still don't believe in (or don't understand) the S foil, which makes more sense for a cat than the C foils seen on this boat.

S foils are to complicate to controle on a beach cat

Last edited by Kennethsf; 10/17/09 02:33 PM.
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Tony_F18] #193808
10/17/09 02:29 PM
10/17/09 02:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
Kennethsf Offline
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The Netherlands
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
And those boards look exactly like the Marstrom ones.

bunkenberg did these

Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Luiz] #193810
10/17/09 02:58 PM
10/17/09 02:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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France
Originally Posted by Luiz
One interesting detail is the airfoil shaped snuffer.
It looks to me this is flat snuffer hoop design as used on other boats: it leads to a flat bag in mesh. I don't think this is going to be a carbon airfoil shape. Nacra has been using those for years.

For example, on a capricorn:
[Linked Image]

Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: pepin] #193811
10/17/09 03:17 PM
10/17/09 03:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
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Come on guys Nacra is pushing ahead with with what they see as the next step ahead in catamaran developement. Even if you feel that it not a boat that is for you, you have to give then some support for this move at a time when cat sailing has just been dealt a fair old kick in the teeth. Small town - small mind or what!
I love the look of this bit of kit and it should appeal to sailors that look foward to something a bit scarry and challenging. the rest you of still have the option of sticking with ........... enough said.
For you info, it used to be called iF20 not F20.


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Tony_F18] #193822
10/17/09 05:47 PM
10/17/09 05:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
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japan
the zilla floats recently got replaced

i think you'll find that the plumb bow 1st gen zilla floats are very simialar [Linked Image]


eric e
1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158
2009 weta tri - 294
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: TEAMVMG] #193825
10/17/09 06:52 PM
10/17/09 06:52 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
V
Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
Come on guys Nacra is pushing ahead with with what they see as the next step ahead in catamaran developement. Even if you feel that it not a boat that is for you, you have to give then some support for this move at a time when cat sailing has just been dealt a fair old kick in the teeth. Small town - small mind or what!
I love the look of this bit of kit and it should appeal to sailors that look foward to something a bit scarry and challenging. the rest you of still have the option of sticking with ........... enough said.
For you info, it used to be called iF20 not F20.



Santa, for Christmas I want my two front teeth and a new NACRA F-20 Carbon. If this does not fit in you sleigh, I'll come pick it up.

Are these being made in the US or Europe?




Last edited by johnes; 10/17/09 06:52 PM.
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: pitchpoledave] #193830
10/17/09 09:35 PM
10/17/09 09:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
enthusiast
TeamTeets  Offline
enthusiast
T

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
Seriously Nacra Europe guys... "Sports and Fun Catamarans" does not make sense in English. Stop wasting the money on the decals that everyone that speaks English removes.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: TeamTeets] #193831
10/17/09 10:45 PM
10/17/09 10:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
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Home is where the harness is.....
Ok, but... Not all that impressed.

"Carbon" and it still weighs in at 375!?!?!
Only 21m^2 on a 33' Al mast.

Where's the "wow" factor? Beam and daggers, that's it.

Really, not trying to be a downer, but... for what the N20 costs these days, what's this one going to run? 40ish? If you want to be first to finish on a 20' boat, looks like the M20, T or CFR will still be king, but I do suspect that this will be hot on their heels. Don't get me wrong, it's cool, but...

(edited b/c I didn't see the carbon hulls and I upped the price by 10k b/c of that)

Last edited by Will_R; 10/17/09 10:52 PM.
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Will_R] #193832
10/17/09 10:56 PM
10/17/09 10:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
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Will_R  Offline
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Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Now... nobody else has mentioned this, could it be their bid for an Olympic replacement cat?

Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Will_R] #193838
10/18/09 08:22 AM
10/18/09 08:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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T

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Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
it says "less than" 375 pounds which leads me to believe the first one that pops out of the mold will be weighted and thats what the weight will be.

Will, as for the mast/SA ratio, I can only imagine that its a high aspect rig.
mast height/mainsail area ratio for F20: 0.48571428571428571428571428571429

For F18: 0.53823529411764705882352941176471

I don't know if the F20 number includes the surface area of the wingmast itself, I know it does for the F18. So what yo u might infer from this spec is that the new F20 is not the light-air monster the N20 is, but it could probably handle the more predominant reaching conditions found in distance races better than our beloved N20's can.


As for S-foils, I'd like to see some of the A cat guys fiddle around with them first before someone put them on a production beach cat.


Cost I've heard two ways, $30k with no sails, and then not even $30k WITH sails. So I guess we're just going to have to wait on an official number from a Nacra dealer. I'll call mine later this afternoon smile

Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: ThunderMuffin] #193846
10/18/09 11:12 AM
10/18/09 11:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Jack said awhile back the target price was less than a M-20.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #193851
10/18/09 12:16 PM
10/18/09 12:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
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Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Jack said awhile back the target price was less than a M-20.


40k is still 10k less than an M20 and the M20 doesn't have sails at that price. (price based on last time I checked Marstroms website and at that time the dollar was stronger than it is now)

Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Will_R] #193855
10/18/09 01:53 PM
10/18/09 01:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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uk
Price is 19,747 euro. + tax

the prototype with inter20 hulls was already faster than the M20!

Last edited by TEAMVMG; 10/18/09 02:01 PM.

Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: TEAMVMG] #193871
10/18/09 09:06 PM
10/18/09 09:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
So, is the consensus that you CAN build a 20' too light?


Jake Kohl
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: TEAMVMG] #193872
10/18/09 09:08 PM
10/18/09 09:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
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South Florida & the Keys
sheez, just too much cash for a 20' cat. Who can afford to sail them? There will never be enough boats in a region to support the class. I don;t get the marketing plan.....


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Will_R] #193878
10/18/09 10:38 PM
10/18/09 10:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Austin TX
C
c6pipes Offline
stranger
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C

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Austin TX
If a multi is selected for 2016, it would likely have to go through a selection like the T did when it was first selected and then selected again when the with the "sport" rig in 1999. It's possible that this was built for that purpose, but I think it was to win Round Texel or other races like that.

Re: New Nacra 20 footer? [Re: Jake] #193880
10/18/09 11:06 PM
10/18/09 11:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Originally Posted by Jake
So, is the consensus that you CAN build a 20' too light?


I don't think so. The CFR is 245lbs at 8.5' wide and 24m^2 on a M20 mast. It needs more weight to make it go, so you can't sail it light, but with 375+ on board it FLIES! Light in the platform and rig means we can (and have to) carry the weight where it matters but it pays off.

Last edited by Will_R; 10/18/09 11:12 PM.
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