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2021 Rags To Riches Regatta
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Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: Just Sail] #257365
02/12/13 01:43 PM
02/12/13 01:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
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macca  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Does anyone have a clue what Franck is on about???


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Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: Just Sail] #257366
02/12/13 01:52 PM
02/12/13 01:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
O
orphan Offline
enthusiast
orphan  Offline
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O

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
Yes, The WOUTER of the F18 class.

Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: Just Sail] #257367
02/12/13 02:46 PM
02/12/13 02:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
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macca  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Wouter actually made arguments that you could follow if not agree with


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Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: orphan] #257368
02/12/13 02:50 PM
02/12/13 02:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
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ksurfer2  Offline
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K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
I tried to stay out of this, I really did, but now I just can't help myself. F-18 is a box rule or formula class. Manufacturers big, or small, or home builders are free to build a boat that they feel best optimizes their products perfromance within the limits of the rule. Over time, these manufactures will make tweaks to their designs (within the rule) that they feel will further optimize performance. It is up to the consumer to decide what product they feel best meets their needs or has best optimized performance.

I can hold my own in my local fleet, I win some, I lose some. I was lucky enough to make it to worlds in LA last year and sailed well enough to make it to gold fleet. In any given race, there were boats of all makes, models, vintages both in front of me and behind me. I had moments of glory in the front of the fleet and periods of dispair at the back. This was allways based on my performance, not that of my boat.

Further, a year ago, I sold my 08 Infusion and picked up a shiny new C2. At a regatta a month ago, I was soundly trounced by my old boat. Nothing to do with either boat, I was out sailed by the crew on my old boat.

The F18 formula works! painted boats, gel coat boats, 1.5 mil sails, 3.0 mil sails.....the performace gains are negligible, it will still be up to the sailor on the boat to win the race. Need proof.....I'm your proof!


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: Just Sail] #257372
02/12/13 04:22 PM
02/12/13 04:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Online content
enthusiast
rehmbo  Online Content
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN
Hmm.... Box Rule, SMOD, MMOD. Not sure if there is such a thing as MMOD, but it seems to be the direction espoused by Franck.

Regardless, strict OD classes tend to be a price/technology/design snapshot in time. As these things (especially strength of materials) improve and move on, the class risks becoming out of touch and withering away.

I think a merit of the box rule is it allows more flexibility to adapt and stay relevant. However, the box also puts limits in place to prevent the class from becoming one where the biggest pocketbook wins.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: ksurfer2] #257508
02/14/13 12:22 PM
02/14/13 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
I was soundly trounced by my old boat.


ouch... that had to hurt almost as bad as a boot in danutz


Jay

Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: Just Sail] #257516
02/14/13 02:30 PM
02/14/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Jay, the guy trims a pink kite. You think he's afraid of a boot in the nuts? Jesus - pity the boot. Karl clangs when he walks.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: Just Sail] #257518
02/14/13 04:26 PM
02/14/13 04:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
When he sails too, its unnerving to listen to for 50 miles straight. You'd think a harness and rushing/firehose pounding water would dull that sound, but nope.


I'm boatless.
Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: ksurfer2] #257648
02/20/13 02:50 PM
02/20/13 02:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
R
rexdenton Offline
enthusiast
rexdenton  Offline
enthusiast
R

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
The F18 formula works! painted boats, gel coat boats, 1.5 mil sails, 3.0 mil sails.....the performace gains are negligible, it will still be up to the sailor on the boat to win the race. Need proof.....I'm your proof!

Second that. I've seen an older boat I thought was stupid slow go from the back of the fleet to mid fleet, with a change of owner, and a fast boat go from the front to the mid just as fast.

Further, I sail with my son. We kinda suck, and are always mid fleet, (or worse) against some of the finest sailors in the world, who inhabit our fleet. I always thought our poor performance was somehow realted to the boat. Then, I had a champ come aboard, trimming sails and calling tactics. During that race, I lead in three races, not just one upwind leg, but for several legs. I crashed twice while leading (got a bit greedy once, miscommunicated on the other), and had one third place. That was enough proof for me to realize...

...It ain't my friggin boat...


Nacra F18 #856
Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: rexdenton] #257681
02/21/13 10:10 AM
02/21/13 10:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by rexdenton

...It ain't my friggin boat...


+1



Jay

Re: Is the F18 Development Class or not? [Re: macca] #260691
06/26/13 11:05 AM
06/26/13 11:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
F
franck Offline
member
franck  Offline
member
F

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by macca
Aside from the fact that One Design goes directly against the F18 guiding principals: "The box measurement rule allows manufacturers to develop catamarans that are competitively priced yet allowing freedom to builders to develop higher levels of performance"

There is the insanely funny part that the Tornado class One Design sail spec as per Ullman sails website shows that they chose 1.5mil laminate to ensure long lasting sails!!! Tornado One Design Sails



http://www.ullmangz.it/products/multihull/tornado-od/

Just check again Andrew cool
Tornado OD sails are using as Material: Apen 6 3.0 mil white from Contender.


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