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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260890
07/03/13 08:03 AM
07/03/13 08:03 AM
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pgp Offline
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Pete Pollard
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-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260892
07/03/13 08:25 AM
07/03/13 08:25 AM
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brucat Offline
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Thank you Philip! That Slingsby video should deflate any screaming about an intent to cheat.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260893
07/03/13 08:36 AM
07/03/13 08:36 AM
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Jake Offline
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huh. So it seems that the reasoning behind the "symmetrical rudder is safer" is to avoid failures of the 90 degree rudder to foil joint. I can see how this would cause a major problem if this broken during a big bear away (who knows, it may have let go during Oracle's big capsize or Alingi's) and I think it adds a little merit to the point for using them.

However, I feel like I should point out that all of them are using asymmetrical dagger boards that should be seeing considerably more loading than the rudders...soo....uhhhh.errrr


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: pgp] #260896
07/03/13 09:00 AM
07/03/13 09:00 AM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Originally Posted by pgp


What's this all-black sailing team they are speaking of? Do they have a boat? Or did some Durham-based African Americans who haven't set foot on a boat decide they needed a piece of the $100 million???

That video from Oracle certainly clears a few things up for me and makes it a little less like cheating. I had assumed the elevator attached to the rudder was movable ala Moth. Adjusting the entire rudder rake+elevator still sounds fairly illegal but their setup really seems optimized for quick testing and not necessarily speed gains while racing.

I really hope whoever wins sees the light and brings foiling AC45's to the action.


Scorpion F18
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Tony_F18] #260897
07/03/13 09:02 AM
07/03/13 09:02 AM
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Naples, FL
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18

Dont think a helmet (or anything!) will protect you from hitting that at 40kts.


I agree, and from what little experience I have hitting things with my face (thanks Karl), getting sliced up by a winglet at 40 knots does not sound pleasant in the least bit.


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: catman] #260898
07/03/13 09:05 AM
07/03/13 09:05 AM
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Naples, FL
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Originally Posted by catman


The other part thats causing a stir is LR and NZ have asymmetrical rudder foils. The leg of the T is longer on the inside than the outside. OR has symmetrical foils, both legs of the T are the same.


So, could OR just move their rudder posts (i.e, the entire rudder) a little bit inboard to allow for more symmetrical winglets and not exceed max beam? Or would that screw up the steering so bad it's not worth it?


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: samc99us] #260899
07/03/13 09:15 AM
07/03/13 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by samc99us
Originally Posted by pgp


What's this all-black sailing team they are speaking of?

I posted on it awhile back. The NC syndicate applied for the AC as a challenger, and was denied for questionable reasons. So the denied challenger has sued in the NY courts.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260901
07/03/13 09:34 AM
07/03/13 09:34 AM
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Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260903
07/03/13 11:07 AM
07/03/13 11:07 AM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Originally Posted by mummp
Originally Posted by samc99us
Originally Posted by pgp


What's this all-black sailing team they are speaking of?

I posted on it awhile back. The NC syndicate applied for the AC as a challenger, and was denied for questionable reasons. So the denied challenger has sued in the NY courts.


Google: African Diaspora Maritime


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

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Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: waterbug_wpb] #260907
07/03/13 12:40 PM
07/03/13 12:40 PM
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Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by catman


The other part thats causing a stir is LR and NZ have asymmetrical rudder foils. The leg of the T is longer on the inside than the outside. OR has symmetrical foils, both legs of the T are the same.


So, could OR just move their rudder posts (i.e, the entire rudder) a little bit inboard to allow for more symmetrical winglets and not exceed max beam? Or would that screw up the steering so bad it's not worth it?


I wonder if there is a rudder/hull centerline rule...otherwise, that sure is a thought.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260916
07/03/13 02:28 PM
07/03/13 02:28 PM
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
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Originally Posted by mummp
There you have it!


Awesome. Can't wait to see what's next. The more things change, the more they stay the same.


Have Fun
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Jake] #260921
07/03/13 03:08 PM
07/03/13 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by catman


The other part thats causing a stir is LR and NZ have asymmetrical rudder foils. The leg of the T is longer on the inside than the outside. OR has symmetrical foils, both legs of the T are the same.


So, could OR just move their rudder posts (i.e, the entire rudder) a little bit inboard to allow for more symmetrical winglets and not exceed max beam? Or would that screw up the steering so bad it's not worth it?


I wonder if there is a rudder/hull centerline rule...otherwise, that sure is a thought.

Why bother? He said their most recent symmetrical rudder wing is compliant.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260923
07/03/13 03:18 PM
07/03/13 03:18 PM
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Detroit, MI
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Now this just impresses the hell out of me. That's some serious laminate engineering.
[Linked Image]

Attached Files
ORRudderWingTest.jpg (167 downloads)
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: mbounds] #260925
07/03/13 03:55 PM
07/03/13 03:55 PM
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Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Originally Posted by mbounds
Now this just impresses the hell out of me. That's some serious laminate engineering.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that testing the load in the wrong direction?

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260926
07/03/13 03:57 PM
07/03/13 03:57 PM
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Daytona Beach Florida
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orphan Offline
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I guess that depends if the boat is foiling or diving for the bottom.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: mbounds] #260927
07/03/13 04:21 PM
07/03/13 04:21 PM
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Panama City, Florida
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[Linked Image]

Looks to me like they are only testing the forklift arms.

-Rob V.



Rob V. Nacra 5.2 Panama City
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260929
07/03/13 05:18 PM
07/03/13 05:18 PM
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brucat Offline
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I'm sure very, very few people ever imagined a winged keel (AUS in Newport), let alone foiling a 72-foot boat of any kind, let alone a cat in the America's Cup. Makes you wonder what kind of innovations are in store over the next 30 years...

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260930
07/03/13 05:57 PM
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Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Isotope235] #260938
07/04/13 05:27 AM
07/04/13 05:27 AM
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Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Isotope42
Originally Posted by mbounds
Now this just impresses the hell out of me. That's some serious laminate engineering.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that testing the load in the wrong direction?


No. The rudders pull the stern down to give the daggerboards an increased angle of attack so the boards will generate more lift. They also pull down in the most extreme case when the bows start getting pushed down.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #260939
07/04/13 05:28 AM
07/04/13 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mummp


Well, now I don't know who to believe. However, one would think that if they had unanimous consent, given all of the America's cup history, someone would have thought to have the teams sign something.


Jake Kohl
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