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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: bacho] #264235
09/19/13 07:53 AM
09/19/13 07:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 96
C
Carl Offline
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Carl  Offline
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Posts: 96
The individual is very likeable and seems competent--though I don't think an Aussie or NZ accent is essential to good racing skills.

The record of starts won and lost speaks for itself .

Many with decades of catamaran racing experience in large competative fleets understands the importance of getting the start , knowing your boat --how long a particular manuever or counter move takes and judging speed to distance to hit the line at full speed at the gun --it is often 50% of the race --read any book on cat racing --it will basically state the same.

The belief that you are fully prepared -ready --able and deserve to win is essential --

Suggested reading for Spithill the phsycology of winning --by Elvestrom


http://www.finnclass.hu/news/technology/psychology_by_paul_elvstrom/

"I must concentrate 100% on the new race in order to prove to myself that I am faster than the others." When going to windward you often see another competitor going off on his own hoping that he can pick up a lucky windshift in order to take the lead - this is pure chance-racing. In 99.9 % of cases he will lose. "
"

I must concentrate 100% on the new race in order to prove to myself that I am faster than the others." When going to windward you often see another competitor going off on his own hoping that he can pick up a lucky windshift in order to take the lead - this is pure chance-racing. In 99.9 % of cases he will lose. "
"

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #264236
09/19/13 08:05 AM
09/19/13 08:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Originally Posted by Undecided


Dalton has a long history of shooting off at the mouth. He's perpetually going on and on about what he sees as injustices/mistakes/whatever. He just never seems happy and I wonder why he ever entered in the first place if he's so pissed off with the whole spectacle.


I knew there was a reason why I liked that guy but couldn't put my finger on it, thanks.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: bacho] #264237
09/19/13 08:09 AM
09/19/13 08:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
Originally Posted by bacho
Originally Posted by Carl
Honestly -I think team O should have a more agressive person at the helm to start with years of experience racing cats in large competative fleets ---many of us would do better at starting.



Do you really think many of us that are sitting on the sidelines would do a better job? Just how much experience do you have on wing sailed foiling catamarans?


And off-the-wind match racing starts?


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Carl] #264238
09/19/13 08:10 AM
09/19/13 08:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Carl
The individual is very likeable and seems competent--though I don't think an Aussie or NZ accent is essential to good racing skills.

The record of starts won and lost speaks for itself .

Many with decades of catamaran racing experience in large competative fleets understands the importance of getting the start , knowing your boat --how long a particular manuever or counter move takes and judging speed to distance to hit the line at full speed at the gun --it is often 50% of the race --read any book on cat racing --it will basically state the same.

The belief that you are fully prepared -ready --able and deserve to win is essential --

Suggested reading for Spithill the phsycology of winning --by Elvestrom


http://www.finnclass.hu/news/technology/psychology_by_paul_elvstrom/

"I must concentrate 100% on the new race in order to prove to myself that I am faster than the others." When going to windward you often see another competitor going off on his own hoping that he can pick up a lucky windshift in order to take the lead - this is pure chance-racing. In 99.9 % of cases he will lose. "
"

I must concentrate 100% on the new race in order to prove to myself that I am faster than the others." When going to windward you often see another competitor going off on his own hoping that he can pick up a lucky windshift in order to take the lead - this is pure chance-racing. In 99.9 % of cases he will lose. "
"


Wow! You really do underestimate these guys and there dedication to the sport. Psssttt! They are paying the bills with there skills you know that right?

Do you really think that getting a good start is any less important in a monohull race? If so, you've never raced a monohull and if you have you weren't paying attention.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264239
09/19/13 08:15 AM
09/19/13 08:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Come on. You don't have to race every day to have a valid opinion and know when they made an obvious mistake that is based on a move that works in monohulls but not in cats.

BTW, we're equally as vocal when they screw up in monohull versions of the AC. It's not always hard to find the mistakes. Would we make them (and probably more)? Of course, but we're not being paid six figures (plus) and going on TV...

I never said I could beat these guys, but being given the training, support and time on the water is an opportunity any of us would love to try.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264243
09/19/13 08:23 AM
09/19/13 08:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
O
orphan Offline
enthusiast
orphan  Offline
enthusiast
O

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
Just returned from SF. Spent Sat/Sun in front of the GGYC watching the races. If you think these things are impressive on UTTUBE you have got to see them live(to bad this may be the last time this class of boat will ever be raced). The near capsize on Saturday had everyone on shore doing the gasp and exhale. Besides the cup races just watching the sailboat eye candy was worth the trip.

Some side notes. A large of sailboats on the bay just sailing during the cup races. As in, not really interested I would rather be sailing then watching AC races sailing.
Inside scoop is that NZ alrady has a 1st class ticket from SF to NZ under the name of THE CUP.
Talking to a guy who had spent some time in the Kiwi camp he saide that if they win it will be back to monos(about 60 ft) with strong nationality rules. The idea is to make it more affordable and get more teams.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: David Ingram] #264244
09/19/13 08:26 AM
09/19/13 08:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 96
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Carl Offline
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Carl  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 96
David typed "Jimmy and team are just getting out sailed. "

Exactly --so what should team O do ?-continue to get outsailed --or change -adapt --overcome ?

If they believe they are being outsailed --they have already lost. Listening to the other skippers on TV who lost --they blamed it on team N having foiling tech sooner and more time on the boat ---if they believe that they have already lost.

"" ;] Yoda --from Davids byline quotes --funny but true

Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

Last edited by Carl; 09/19/13 08:28 AM.
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264245
09/19/13 08:41 AM
09/19/13 08:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...


Actually the fat lady has already sung. If you think otherwise your in denial. She's been recorded. They are going to use the Liveline Graphics to put her mug on the bay right at the start. Because when the next race starts it's game over.

Last edited by catman; 09/19/13 08:44 AM.

Have Fun
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Carl] #264247
09/19/13 08:47 AM
09/19/13 08:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
since when has any AC been "affordable"? This ain't the friggin Special Olympics...

Was Sir Lipton's campaign(s) "Affordable"?

Was the 12 meter campaign really "affordable"?

maybe define "affordable"... It's certainly affordable for the two finalists right now, and even some of the challenger teams..

It's always been a "yachting" event between uber-rich... why mess with it?

When else would you see this sort of technology/engineering really get tested on the world stage without some big $$ and ego behind it?

Would any of us even dream of foiling ANYTHING if we just watched 12 meter OD classes going round and round? Having watched the AC finals, it seems everyone all the sudden wants a foiling boat (cat, mono, swim fins, goldfish, etc)

heck, would anyone even watch the AC without these strange flying beasts? It was hard watching AC events of the past even when i WAS rooting for a particular team.. (the paint-drying analogy)



Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264248
09/19/13 08:48 AM
09/19/13 08:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
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orphan Offline
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Daytona Beach Florida
But it is very small things that are killing O. Stuffed bow on the run to mark 1 in race 10. 1 bad tack at the top mark in race 11. Just shows how close the racing is. The real handicap is the courses, they are so short that if you make one mistake there is no time to recover.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264249
09/19/13 08:49 AM
09/19/13 08:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
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brucat Offline
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What's the forecast? Any chance of AP until Saturday? That might be the only way we'll get to see racing this weekend.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: orphan] #264250
09/19/13 08:49 AM
09/19/13 08:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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yes, but that same short course helps cut the pain of watching a runaway race... When one boat was totally dominating the other (didn't matter which team), it seemed like the race couldn't end soon enough...

It is funny to think that a 1 minute delta between winner and loser is a total beat-down. What short attention span I have now...

Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 09/19/13 08:50 AM.

Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #264251
09/19/13 08:52 AM
09/19/13 08:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by brucat
Come on. You don't have to race every day to have an valid opinion and know when they made an obvious mistake that is based on a move that works in monohulls but not in cats.


Mike


Fixed it for you.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264252
09/19/13 08:53 AM
09/19/13 08:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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by the way, besides these teams sailing now can anyone describe what it feels like sailing with closing speeds approaching 100 miles per hour?


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264253
09/19/13 08:53 AM
09/19/13 08:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Carl,
You're way off base with your preconceptions of Spithill. He is the more aggressive skipper of the two and is probably one, if not THE most aggressive pro match racer out there. He does not believe they are beaten. Ding has it right (glad to see the OLD Ding back ,by the way).
Tad, Would you prefer Dalt's lawyer do all his whining for him ala Ellison. It's the AC: Rich whiners with expensive boats. Always has been, always will.I respect Grant Dalton for his no BS attitude.
A bunch of you talk about the AC like it's a local club regatta that will change to your inconsequential whim. IT'S THE OLDEST SPORTING TROPHY. Hate it or love it.
And for you guys hating on Ken Read you do know he owns an M-32 that sits at sail newport. Mike you had to know this. He's been getting suckered in to the commentator disease of blather, but it's ALMOST understandable considering how much time they've had to fill with the Bullshite wind limits killing races. It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by dodo birds. How come nobody pointed out what an obnoxious turd that Green guy is? He's way out of his league, unless his league is being irritating.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: orphan] #264254
09/19/13 08:53 AM
09/19/13 08:53 AM
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brucat Offline
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Originally Posted by orphan
But it is very small things that are killing O. Stuffed bow on the run to mark 1 in race 10. 1 bad tack at the top mark in race 11. Just shows how close the racing is. The real handicap is the courses, they are so short that if you make one mistake there is no time to recover.


I don't know about the last part. If the only problem were the length of the course, teams behind wouldn't keep getting further behind.

I do have issues with fairness of the course in a flood tide, but wouldn't change the location for exposure reasons.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: David Ingram] #264257
09/19/13 08:56 AM
09/19/13 08:56 AM
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brucat Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by brucat
Come on. You don't have to race every day to have an valid opinion and know when they made an obvious mistake that is based on a move that works in monohulls but not in cats.


Mike


Fixed it for you.


Does that make you feel better?

SA move worthy of an SA response, I'm not stooping to that level.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: waterbug_wpb] #264258
09/19/13 08:57 AM
09/19/13 08:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Portland, Maine
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
since when has any AC been "affordable"? This ain't the friggin Special Olympics...

Was Sir Lipton's campaign(s) "Affordable"?

Was the 12 meter campaign really "affordable"?

maybe define "affordable"... It's certainly affordable for the two finalists right now, and even some of the challenger teams..

It's always been a "yachting" event between uber-rich... why mess with it?

When else would you see this sort of technology/engineering really get tested on the world stage without some big $$ and ego behind it?

Would any of us even dream of foiling ANYTHING if we just watched 12 meter OD classes going round and round? Having watched the AC finals, it seems everyone all the sudden wants a foiling boat (cat, mono, swim fins, goldfish, etc)

heck, would anyone even watch the AC without these strange flying beasts? It was hard watching AC events of the past even when i WAS rooting for a particular team.. (the paint-drying analogy)



Precisely.

If I want to watch 60' monos race around then I can go to the yacht club and watch J24's dink around like rubber duckies in a bathtub. I don't want an "affordable" yacht race.

I want a spectacle.

I want something that I can show to my friends and coworkers and say "LOOK HOW COOL SAILING IS GUYS" and have them say "Wow ok this is awesome, what have I been missing out on?"

60 foot monos is snoozefest. I know orphan said that he spoke to kiwis saying that, but I spoke to a couple that said the opposite. I don't think we'll see AC72's in the next rendition of the AC but I think we'll see a smaller multihull. Maybe a MOD70 trimaran?

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: waterbug_wpb] #264259
09/19/13 09:00 AM
09/19/13 09:00 AM
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brucat Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
by the way, besides these teams sailing now can anyone describe what it feels like sailing with closing speeds approaching 100 miles per hour?


Another Kenny-ism that makes me crazy. Except for the ONE time that ETNZ hunted Oracle, they have never approached each other head-on.

Time to go back to physics class and re-learn vector calculations.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #264260
09/19/13 09:05 AM
09/19/13 09:05 AM
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brucat Offline
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Um, yes I do know about the cats in Newport, as I've mentioned several times in this very thread. Try to keep up...

Kenny is (by far) the only one worth listening to (I've said that more than a few times too). He just needs to shake a few habits.

The Volvo boats were probably the fastest monohulls we'd be likely to see in this type of race. Nothing will ever compare to the AC72s. Going downwind without kites is just unreal...

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 09/19/13 09:08 AM.
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