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Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO #276929
01/09/15 10:33 PM
01/09/15 10:33 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 12
Tim594 Offline OP
stranger
Tim594  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 12
Since i'm a noob catsailor at 5 yrs on a Hobie 16 and a Hobie 20 my input is very minimal, however, at 41 i'm a technology junkie.
I really try to visit this site but it's often outdated, scattered? and hard to navigate settings, pictures and events. At first glance it looks like 50 people sail a catamaran in the world and only 10-20 people of those are ever logged in at any given time of day or night that I've seen. This should be the #1 go to catsailor site of all time. The people here are 1st class pro's!
I'd gladly donate some PayPal funds to revitalize and modernize the site! Maybe i'm off base a bit...
I realize that cat sailing in the US has taken a huge plunge over the last 20 years but I'm new and Cat sailing and it's too much fun and getting better every year :)I get our fleet more active by about 3 cats per year local. Everyone has a great time. I'd be happy to promote ect.
Tim


Tim Grover
Memphis TN

Hobie 16
Hobie 18
Hobie 20
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276930
01/09/15 10:47 PM
01/09/15 10:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
I thought we've just hammered all the details out and worn out the internet. There's a big difference in the traffic here today, then when I signed up ten years ago.


I'm boatless.
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276933
01/10/15 04:51 AM
01/10/15 04:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
N
northsea junkie Offline
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northsea junkie  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
First you have a bug in your avatar, Tim, which creates a wrong popup in all our visits to this thread.

Second, In my humble opinion, the great power and potency of this forum is the enormous span in the different member-nationalities.
They are literally all over the world and having each their different sailing spots with specific local problems and needs.


Ofcourse the US-group dominates in numbers this forum, but they are entitled to do so, looking at the size of their role in the real worldwide society.
Besides, the base of this forum is Rick and his business in the States.

I find this openforum/discussions thread a very special and unique worldwide connecting medium between catsailors all over the world. In which they all share the same love for their sport (and sometimes other matters!), despite how different they sometimes seem to be.

I'm totally satisfied with the flow and the look of this site!

P.S. I have difficulty with the way your are shaking with your wallet for revitalising this forum.
If there is really need for that, this forum can easily and united bring up funds for that.

Last edited by northsea junkie; 01/10/15 05:18 AM.

ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276934
01/10/15 07:51 AM
01/10/15 07:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 381
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
enthusiast
rehmbo  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 381
SE MI / NE IN
Tim and Junkie both make good points.

What exists obviously functions reasonably well and indeed serves as a unique global forum on the subject. We that use it on a regular basis are probably satisfied with the look and feel. However, the bar has been raised on the rest of the internet, and new (younger) people that come to the site might not be as impressed as we might hope.

Since catsailing is an endeavor that seems to attract technically inclined people, I'd bet there are more than a few individuals with some level of web development experience, graphic design, etc. that could volunteer to assist Rick with a bit of sprucing up, etc.

I don't really think money needs to be part of the equation as far as any update is concerned. There are basic hosting costs, but they are there regardless of website appearance, function, and flow.

If we decide such an update is warranted, I for one would be happy to assist.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Karl_Brogger] #276935
01/10/15 08:48 AM
01/10/15 08:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I thought we've just hammered all the details out and worn out the internet. There's a big difference in the traffic here today, then when I signed up ten years ago.


Speaking as the top poster here, these forums have definitely seen a reduction in activity. imho, it was the unchecked political threads that got very personal and ran a lot of people away.


Jake Kohl
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Jake] #276936
01/10/15 09:27 AM
01/10/15 09:27 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



imho - I think it's a combo of many factors:

1 biggest factor is simply the drop off in cat sailing and racing in the USA

2 the personal attacks on this thread from time to time (think wouter)

3 the beat down people get when they give wrong technical advice

4 political arguments - especially when they sneak into non political threads

5 the degradation of other people's political views that ostracize people (i.e. when Todd_Sails he calls people dumecrats and such) - this is completely out of line and there is no room for this in a sailing site. I would have kicked him out if I ran this forum


Quote
I really try to visit this site but it's often outdated, scattered? and hard to navigate settings, pictures and events.

the data is not outdated - maybe the look and feel of it is, but there is no need to re-envent the wheel or spend 100's-1000s of hours chaning it to a newer looking format.

If you can't figure out how this site works... than ask for help

I have been a web developer for almost 20 years now and in my opinion - this is a sailing forum, i see no need to "pretty it up" or spend any time or money into adding un-needed features.

Last edited by MN3; 01/10/15 09:28 AM.
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276937
01/10/15 10:49 AM
01/10/15 10:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
My 2 cents,

I agree that the site is a little dated, but I do not think that has much to do with a decline in use.

I also think that with the current traffic, I would prefer is consolidated into just one or 2 sections. Some of the other sections have no recent activity at all other than spam. Its mostly all the same group anyways lets lump all Tech together and generate more traffic and conversation on them.

If I posted an A-class question in that section now, I have my doubts on it being seen by more than 10% of the people here.

Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: bacho] #276938
01/10/15 01:38 PM
01/10/15 01:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Thanks for the analysis, guys.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: RickWhite] #276947
01/11/15 02:53 PM
01/11/15 02:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
Pirate Offline
old hand
Pirate  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
As a moderator and admin on several other forums....its not just catsailor forum that's seeing a 'decline' in use, its a global thing in which all forums are suffering from....

simply its "speed"

Facebook groups have taken over much of the daily chitchat and social aspect of most forums. wink
Its fast and its fun via FB, the humble forum however is slow and tedious in comparision.

Tech advise on the FB (facebook) sites is simply linked back to the forums and so little use other than a data base occurs



Purely an example.... lets say I get a PM from Rick, I wont receive that until I'm logged in which most likely is tomorrow, on FB however that message is instant and so is my reply.... the same applies to this thread, I wont see any reply's until I'm logged in next time, on FB however I'm instantly notified and can respond the same..

FB also allows a far easier form of "posting" and the addition of posting pics over a forum, any fool with a 'smartphone' can add a photo to their FB group, its always a suprise here and on other forums just how many people ask the usual "how do I post pics ?"



as for the site the way it is.....
When I first joined I though the layout was a disaster, almost a thrown together jumble of tacked on bits and pieces, but... having been here a while now I'm used to it and have a better 'feel" for the way I use the forum......
having said that, there are many sections I don't use at all or would have any need to even view.... the use of these sections seems to say much the same for many users here too, they are dead wood at the best

Kingy








Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276948
01/11/15 06:51 PM
01/11/15 06:51 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,380
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Online content
veteran
JeffS  Online Content
veteran

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,380
Kingston SE South Australia
IMO the sections are priceless I can go back as far as I like in any section and find posts, if it was all combined I would have to go through a lot of newer posts. I think it's fantastic that we have a newer member that is interested enough to want to contribute to the forum and wonder if he could have a crack at doing something.


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276949
01/11/15 09:40 PM
01/11/15 09:40 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 12
Tim594 Offline OP
stranger
Tim594  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 12
Yea, I certainly wasn't trying to talk down the site but I do think it can be streamlined somehow, maybe with a fresh home page with the sub forums listed under drop down tabs ( i.e., F16, F18, Hobie Class, Open Class, General, Tech Help, Racing , Photo's and Classifieds ) A calendar on the front page that registered users can edit and add events to at any time. and maybe a Current top 20 posts so that if someone makes a post in ANY sub forum it auto "Bumps up" to top of the list by post date. Same with sub forums, newest posts go straight to the top of the list.
Even though i'm a hobie guy, I always enjoy reading what others have to say about all things sailing, racine, tuning, repairs etc etc.

I know web design is VERY time consuming and it wouldn't be feasible to ask someone to donate many dozens of hours of their time to get the work done to make things look amazing, but if someone popped up and said "Hey, i'll do the job for $xxx.00" i'd be more than willing to donate because yes, new, younger people are accustomed to a more flashy faster interface and i'm willing to invest in sailing gaining momentum again. Literally, for the price of a new game console, a PC and a few games someone can own a cat and get out on the water, mingle with friends that aren't virtual on FB and learn a skill!

Last edited by Tim594; 01/11/15 09:52 PM.

Tim Grover
Memphis TN

Hobie 16
Hobie 18
Hobie 20
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276951
01/12/15 06:20 AM
01/12/15 06:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
N
northsea junkie Offline
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northsea junkie  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Petten Netherlands
Originally Posted by Tim594

younger people are accustomed to a more flashy faster interface and i'm willing to invest in sailing gaining momentum again. Literally, for the price of a new game console, a PC and a few games someone can own a cat and get out on the water, mingle with friends that aren't virtual on FB and learn a skill!


Tim, I won't say that all younsters nowadays are wimps and pussy's.

But if you mean younsters<20 years, I suggest that they first start really cat-sailing before joining a forum about that.
The questions they encounter then will arise automatically. And at that moment a non flashy interface of the internetforum is the least important.

And the fact that they have to learn and find their way on this forum (it took me a year) is fine. Compared to my childhood these younsters are already so spoiled that I often wonder how they will end as human beings.
Yes, I know, I now sound like a grumbling old man (which I'm sometimes).

You can see in the signature of my posts that I had already on very young age a drive to the sea and sailing. There was no money in those days just after second world war. I had to start with a home-made wooden canoe and I had to figure it out all by myself.


You want to seduce them via a bling-bling site to catsailing; I would say the opposite. Nothing wrong with a threshold.



Last edited by northsea junkie; 01/12/15 06:25 AM.

ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: northsea junkie] #276953
01/12/15 09:30 AM
01/12/15 09:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Maybe I'm another one of those old crumudgeons, but I like the format of the catsailor forums far better than some other groups (google, yahoo, etc) in terms of it's simplicity and ease of navigation.

Many cases it's much easier to find the information I'm looking for here. I'm sure it would be much better with subject lines being more specific (and possibly in the sub-forums rather than the general one).

It is fun to hop around the sub-forums to see what the various interest groups are talking about. Even though I've moved on to the three-legged variety (trimarans) I still find relevant information and discussions on tactics, sail/boat handling, repair/renovation, and general sailing conversations.

I do agree, however, that most of the "chat" has moved to other platforms (FB, twitter, instagram, etc) but I don't subscribe to those platforms so I'm sure I miss out on all the current stuff. This is most likely a GOOD thing, since I'd be willing to bet a lot of that chat contains off-topic stuff (like some of the political threads and cyber-yakkity threads here which I'm CERTAIN have soured many middling and top sailors on this site)..

What purpose then, in this discussion, should we aim for with a forum such as this? I agree it is a treasure-trove of historical and technical data.

As to the front page, it might benefit from a cleaner look but it's nice to have the news up front like that. I find today's news websites a little too cluttered as well (information overload to my luddite brain). Perhaps toss in some non-race oriented stuff (sailing with pets/kids, product reviews, new sailing grounds, hotel reviews, etc. often found in the newsprint version).

I'd make Jake one of the regular contributing writers. He's awesome at documenting stuff (like repairs and other technical stuff) and he's my go-to guy for graphics and advice when "the front fell off". Roland and Phill are great too with their projects.

I can't recall the guy (Isotope?) but some of those discussions on tactics and rules is HUGE-a. Throw that in some sort of "rules corner" and reference some of those ISAF decisions and noobs and experts alike would benefit.

The post-incident reviews (what happened, why, what could be done different) are good reads on why masts broke, boats collided, and other stuff when SHTF (* hits the fan). The personal drama stories that VOR and the other big events are focusing on are always drawing eyeballs and web-clicks, and there is plenty of that here in the forums.


Jay

Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276957
01/12/15 11:12 AM
01/12/15 11:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,248
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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dave mosley  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,248
Columbia South Carolina, USA
wait, I just figured out how to post stuff....
Where is Wouter? We actually met him at a Spring Fever regatta many years back, I kinda miss the banter.


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276958
01/12/15 01:26 PM
01/12/15 01:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
Lack of activity is certainly one issue. It ebs and flows with the seasons, but does seem much slower these days. I think spammers cause me the worst issues. Jump to active threads only to find the post is a spammer. We moderate all new users at the Hobie site... delays new posts sometimes, but a big help. Also... no political threads.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: mmiller] #276960
01/12/15 02:32 PM
01/12/15 02:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Regardless, I appreciate all that Rick and Mary have done to make this site available for our review, input, drivel, etc.

I'm sure it can't be easy... or cheap


Jay

Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: Tim594] #276961
01/12/15 03:30 PM
01/12/15 03:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Firstly, Welcome Tim!!!!! Having a fresh perspective is always a good thing.

I agree that there is a lot of good info here, and it is not easy to navigate.

I spend time on other forums (car repairs, etc.), which aren't necessarily flashier, but have far greater volume of users and data, and are far more compartmentalized, so finding the right info can be a challenge.

One thing that I think would help (personal/brand attacks) would be to have more moderators, who are empowered to stop the train before it gets completely off the tracks. No one wants to be censored, but sometimes people act like they really need it. This isn't SA, nor should it be.

Mike

Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: northsea junkie] #276962
01/12/15 03:45 PM
01/12/15 03:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by northsea junkie
Originally Posted by Tim594

younger people are accustomed to a more flashy faster interface and i'm willing to invest in sailing gaining momentum again. Literally, for the price of a new game console, a PC and a few games someone can own a cat and get out on the water, mingle with friends that aren't virtual on FB and learn a skill!


Tim, I won't say that all younsters nowadays are wimps and pussy's.

But if you mean younsters<20 years, I suggest that they first start really cat-sailing before joining a forum about that.
The questions they encounter then will arise automatically. And at that moment a non flashy interface of the internetforum is the least important.

And the fact that they have to learn and find their way on this forum (it took me a year) is fine. Compared to my childhood these younsters are already so spoiled that I often wonder how they will end as human beings.
Yes, I know, I now sound like a grumbling old man (which I'm sometimes).

You can see in the signature of my posts that I had already on very young age a drive to the sea and sailing. There was no money in those days just after second world war. I had to start with a home-made wooden canoe and I had to figure it out all by myself.


You want to seduce them via a bling-bling site to catsailing; I would say the opposite. Nothing wrong with a threshold.





I disagree, Flash/Bling of Americas cup sparked interest in Catamaran sailing. The same goes for a website like this. We don't know who passes by this site. This is 2015, it shouldn't take a year to learn how to navigate a website.

The status-quo isn't exactly booming.

Last edited by bacho; 01/12/15 03:46 PM.
Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: bacho] #276963
01/12/15 04:00 PM
01/12/15 04:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
for those of you working in "today's media" (FB, Twitter, etc), is that medium "searchable"?

Like if I recall someone has some diamond wire settings they posted a year ago, can I search FB and retrieve them?


Jay

Re: Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO [Re: waterbug_wpb] #276964
01/12/15 04:01 PM
01/12/15 04:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Of the catsailors out there, how many (%) spend time online?

If 100%, where are they going for the most part?

Would a Catsailor mobile app be effective?


Jay

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