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Mobile bay regatta #278552
04/26/15 12:00 PM
04/26/15 12:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline OP
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dave mosley  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
I just read there were 10 cats in the regatta, any word on these guys?


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





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Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278553
04/26/15 12:15 PM
04/26/15 12:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by dave mosley
I just read there were 10 cats in the regatta, any word on these guys?


You talking about the Daulphin Island race? I heard it got nasty with a storm...people missing but I don't know anything else.


Jake Kohl
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: Jake] #278554
04/26/15 01:19 PM
04/26/15 01:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Based on some Facebook posts it sounds like the cat sailors are all ok.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...sing-alabama-after-boats-capsize-n348481


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278555
04/26/15 02:30 PM
04/26/15 02:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
T
tshan Offline
old hand
tshan  Offline
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T

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
Connor Gaston, who was quoted in the article, is a H16 sailor (Along with his dad and uncle). Andy Humphries (f18) and Rundell Curtis (T) were also there. It would Be interesting to hear their stories. Usually, the multihulls are done way before 4:30, at least that is my recollection.

ETA: Rundell was sailing with Andy, not on a T.

Last edited by tshan; 04/26/15 02:45 PM.

Tom
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: tshan] #278556
04/27/15 06:01 AM
04/27/15 06:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
All the cat sailors are OK. Fairly certain that the two fatalities came from a Cal 25 that capsized and sank (from the thread going on Sailing Anarchy).

Mike McNeir's Hobie 20 was totaled.
[Linked Image]

An 18 HT essentially suffered the same fate:
[Linked Image]

I saw on the ABC morning news this AM a dismasted Hobie 16 being towed in by a keelboat.

The video taken from a boat when the storm hit is pretty scary - not only the weather, but the lack of preparedness the crew showed. No life jackets, no foul weather gear, no harnesses - there was one old guy just sitting in the **** in jeans and a light rain jacket when it's blowing 60+, horizontal rain and lightning all around.

Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278557
04/27/15 07:15 AM
04/27/15 07:15 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



Connor posted on the beachcats
"I was out there in the storm on our H16. All the cat sailors are fine. I know an 18HT Javelin and a Hobie 20 were damaged beyond repair. I've seen pictures of the Javelin but not the 20.. Stuff was ridiculous where we were. Honestly it was much more intense than any of the videos I have seen from other boats. The best way I can describe it is based on what I saw on the radar on my phone shortly before we got hit. There was one smallish area on the radar that was in the red. Dauphin island was more in the green radar area. Our boat and my uncle's boat were literally in the red area when we encountered the storm.
Someone from al.com wants to talk to me tomorrow so I'll post up the interview when I find it posted. My uncle Ron also talked with the Mobile press register.. There was a phone interview I did with the local NBC 15 news station that aired yesterday"

I too was shocked watching the video, no lifejackets in a crazy storm?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...TE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-04-26-16-21-21

Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278558
04/27/15 07:46 AM
04/27/15 07:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
So your on a beach cat and you see this coming fast, gettong to shore is not an option. What do you do?

Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278559
04/27/15 07:57 AM
04/27/15 07:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 473
Panama City, Florida
Redtwin Offline
addict
Redtwin  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 473
Panama City, Florida
Turtle and hang on for dear life???


Rob V. Nacra 5.2 Panama City
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278560
04/27/15 08:03 AM
04/27/15 08:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
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B

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Posts: 3,969
Everyone's worst nightmare, that's for sure. CNN is saying there are 5 people missing, is that accurate?

I want to say we've discussed this fairly recently, but there's an age-old debate about whether it's smarter to intentionally capsize in a T-storm.

From the other side, this will result in another CG investigation, I'm sure US Sailing has already been contacted. Regatta safety plans will be reviewed, etc.

Does your regatta have a safety plan? Everyone wants to be responsible for their own safety, but when this stuff happens, the CG fully expects the RC/OA to know exactly who is missing, and where they need to be searching.

Mike

Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: Redtwin] #278561
04/27/15 08:13 AM
04/27/15 08:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Redtwin
Turtle and hang on for dear life???


I've been running this scenario through in my head since this happened.

Turtling the boat is probably the best option, but the tricky part is going to be to predict that this is what you need to do. Once that wind hits, I doubt you are going to be able to get the boat turtle because the wind will be so strong that the boat will just keep flipping and/or right itself. Even if you did predict it and get it turtled, I'm not convinced that the boat would stay inverted once the sea state gets rolling. You would also risk filling the mast with water if you did manage to keep it submerged for the duration of that weather and then righting it could be an issue if you made it through (but you would still be a little better off on a more visible boat and somewhat out of the water). So, maybe try it but be prepared to quickly abandon the boat if it rights itself. If the wind is already cranking, I would give up on the thought of turtling the boat.

You can't really drop the jib on a lot of our boats and even if you could, the mast and hull windage alone is probably enough to toss the boat. Reducing sail by dropping the main would be an option up to about 40 knots windspeed (jib only), maybe 45 knots if you cut the jib loose and let it flog to pieces... but dropping all the sails wouldn't help you in that kind of severe storm on a small light catamaran. The tricky thing here, again, is predicting how bad that storm front was going to get. Your options are more limited on the catamaran (vs. monohull) to change things when the wind starts to build to the point where it is a problem.

Having the correct gear is going to be essential because I think you would just end up abandoning the boat (intentionally or not). VHF, EPIRB, flotation....finding a quick way to carry some hydration might be a good idea too. Some line so you and your crew can secure yourselves together (which you should already pack in your pfd for various purposes). You could be afloat for a while - focus early on retaining as much body heat as possible. If you got caught in the severe part of that storm, you would probably just need to abandon the boat in a controlled manner so you and your crew can stay together and minimize the risk of injury as the boat becomes less boat and more projectile.


Jake Kohl
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278562
04/27/15 08:35 AM
04/27/15 08:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
Mobile Bay is so shallow, that I'm not sure turtling is an option. Everywhere I've sailed is 10 ft or less, except in the shipping channel.

David and I have managed to drop the main, and run downwind with the Jib in 40+, but that's not nearly the pressure that 60+ is. That is what I would probably try first, but I'm not sure what the answer is in that situation.

Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: Jake] #278563
04/27/15 08:36 AM
04/27/15 08:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
This gives me another thought too. I had intended to pack my flares in a drybag on the rear trampoline storage bag. I could set that drybag up as a bit of a ditch bag and put in a few spare water bottles, rope, etc. Hmmm...I wonder what I would want to have in that little bag.


Jake Kohl
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: Jake] #278564
04/27/15 09:03 AM
04/27/15 09:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Jake
This gives me another thought too. I had intended to pack my flares in a drybag on the rear trampoline storage bag. I could set that drybag up as a bit of a ditch bag and put in a few spare water bottles, rope, etc. Hmmm...I wonder what I would want to have in that little bag.


Dye marker, signal mirror and the inflatable orange sausage divers use. It rolls up slightly larger than a cell phone.

You're carrying water/food in your camelbak, right? So maybe redundancy in the ditch bag.

Some cash in the ditch bag is probably a good idea, too.

I guess the remainder of contents would depend on how far you intend to wander in the boat... Maybe a backup PLB? Flashlight?


Jay

Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: mikekrantz] #278565
04/27/15 09:09 AM
04/27/15 09:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by mikekrantz


David and I have managed to drop the main, and run downwind with the Jib in 40+, but that's not nearly the pressure that 60+ is. That is what I would probably try first, but I'm not sure what the answer is in that situation.


My brother and I did that on the N20 at Hogsbreath after flipping several times when that front rolled through. Much less dramatic than that Dauphin storm. Only about 30 with gusts, and we were on the bay side, so the water was probably only about 2 foot chop.

Rolled the jib and dropped the main. Still clipped downwind on bare poles at 6+ kts. Once we got the main down and lashed to the tramp, the lightning was my biggest concern.

I guess if it was blowing 60+ I'd be concerned that the wind would get under the tramp and flip it (even with the sails down)....especially if there were large seas which would likely catch the trampoline at the crest?

And all you Worrell/Tybee veterans... Surely you faced rather ugly conditions out in the ocean... How did you handle white-out squalls?

I know one of you got dismasted and jury-rigged a sail to get back to land...


Jay

Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: waterbug_wpb] #278567
04/27/15 09:15 AM
04/27/15 09:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by Jake
This gives me another thought too. I had intended to pack my flares in a drybag on the rear trampoline storage bag. I could set that drybag up as a bit of a ditch bag and put in a few spare water bottles, rope, etc. Hmmm...I wonder what I would want to have in that little bag.


Dye marker, signal mirror and the inflatable orange sausage divers use. It rolls up slightly larger than a cell phone.

You're carrying water/food in your camelbak, right? So maybe redundancy in the ditch bag.

Some cash in the ditch bag is probably a good idea, too.

I guess the remainder of contents would depend on how far you intend to wander in the boat... Maybe a backup PLB? Flashlight?


Most of those sausages are designed to be filled with air from the scuba tanks, I believe...and I'm not sure how much they would add to your visibility from the air (I presume this would be the primary means you get spotted?)...dye marker and signal mirror are definitely good things.


Jake Kohl
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278568
04/27/15 09:41 AM
04/27/15 09:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
There's a roll-out orange thing too. I forget what it's called, but it essentially acts like a dye marker.

Mike

Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: Jake] #278569
04/27/15 09:58 AM
04/27/15 09:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
veteran
tback  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by Jake
This gives me another thought too. I had intended to pack my flares in a drybag on the rear trampoline storage bag. I could set that drybag up as a bit of a ditch bag and put in a few spare water bottles, rope, etc. Hmmm...I wonder what I would want to have in that little bag.


Dye marker, signal mirror and the inflatable orange sausage divers use. It rolls up slightly larger than a cell phone.

You're carrying water/food in your camelbak, right? So maybe redundancy in the ditch bag.

Some cash in the ditch bag is probably a good idea, too.

I guess the remainder of contents would depend on how far you intend to wander in the boat... Maybe a backup PLB? Flashlight?


Most of those sausages are designed to be filled with air from the scuba tanks, I believe...and I'm not sure how much they would add to your visibility from the air (I presume this would be the primary means you get spotted?)...dye marker and signal mirror are definitely good things.


The "safety sausage" is known as a Surface Marker Buoy. They can be inflated by either free flowing the regulator into the base or it also has a manual blow up stem.


Surface Marker Buoy on Amazon.com


USA 777
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278571
04/27/15 11:46 AM
04/27/15 11:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
I would think riding it out with the boat on it's side would be the best. The likelihood of keeping it upright is slim to none, but I've only ridden out wind like that for ten minutes on a smaller lake. So no big waves. The wind was reported to be 60mph, but I don't believe it was actually that high where I was either.

I do think that no matter how many times you run a scenario through your head, the reality will always be different. Location, severity of the weather, and who you are with, then throw whatever level of exhaustion you've got going on top of all that. Any level of preparedness certainly won't hurt though. What I'm getting at, is there isn't a set answer, just the hindsight of what should've been done differently.

Last edited by Karl_Brogger; 04/27/15 11:47 AM.

I'm boatless.
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: Karl_Brogger] #278573
04/27/15 12:57 PM
04/27/15 12:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I would think riding it out with the boat on it's side would be the best. The likelihood of keeping it upright is slim to none, but I've only ridden out wind like that for ten minutes on a smaller lake. So no big waves. The wind was reported to be 60mph, but I don't believe it was actually that high where I was either.

I do think that no matter how many times you run a scenario through your head, the reality will always be different. Location, severity of the weather, and who you are with, then throw whatever level of exhaustion you've got going on top of all that. Any level of preparedness certainly won't hurt though. What I'm getting at, is there isn't a set answer, just the hindsight of what should've been done differently.


While I have no direct evidence, I would be a little concerned that the boat might self-right if you leave it on it's side. Frankly, I was pretty concerned about it when we flipped in what was gusting to 36knots during a steeplechase several years ago. It only required a slight flinch to right it. Maybe if you can sit on the mast and hold it down? (that is, if you don't lose the boat in the process as it will be flying through the water even on its side)


Jake Kohl
Re: Mobile bay regatta [Re: dave mosley] #278576
04/27/15 02:23 PM
04/27/15 02:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Self righting could definitely be an issue. I had a H16 do it, but not anything else. Yet. I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, but if it goes turtle, it likely won't stay that way too when it's that windy and rough. If it can't go turtle, and upright isn't an option, you're left with either being on it's side, or abandoning. Abandoning is less than ideal. laugh


I'm boatless.
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