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Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... #278642
04/29/15 06:23 AM
04/29/15 06:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Hi all,
I read the 2008 thread about spin sheets I think started by Karl.

Jumping ahead to my question,
I'm usin a spin sheet, with a short pigtail spliced into the middle of it- and the pigtail goes to the spin clew via a small bowline.

This method makes two ends of the spin sheet on the tramp after feeding thru the spin blocks on port and starboard.

This is the system I'm using for the sheeting system on my kite.

For those that have the ends run back like this, what do you do with them?
At first- I was taping them end to end so it would go thru a large block near the back of the tramp.

MOre recently, I'm tying each end to a bungee the runs in front of my rear crossbar at the back, from beam to beam.
This has worked OK also.

YOur systems on this?

TIA


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278648
04/29/15 07:30 AM
04/29/15 07:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
We use this system as well. I have spliced eyes in the ends of the sheet and use a soft shackle to connect the ends together. I've tried to run them through a large plastic ring attached to a bunji at the back of the trampoline to keep them clear but my crew prefers to have the spin sheets loose on the trampoline. He manages them well and they are rarely a problem so I don't interfere.

I think the length of the spin sheet is key here, though. If they're too long, they'll wash off the side. They need to be JUST long enough that the crew can get his foot in the back footstrap while sheeting the kite at a deep angle...no longer.


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278651
04/29/15 07:39 AM
04/29/15 07:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Posts: 774
Greenville SC
I run a similar system, works great. Shock cord takes up the extra for me.

Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: bacho] #278653
04/29/15 08:03 AM
04/29/15 08:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by bacho
I run a similar system, works great. Shock cord takes up the extra for me.


I think Ted's argument against the bunji is that our spin sheet doesn't have any slack in it and the bunji pulls things at angles and interferes with his sheeting from the trapeze. The bunji would probably be fine if the sheet were longer (and then we would need that bunji more).

I recently switched to the same system that Ding uses ... with bujis pulling the loose ends toward the edges of the trampoline. That bunji actually runs through a double block at the end of my tack line so the bunjis go loose when the kite tack is pulled out. Ted is not a fan of that system so we're going back to the previous way where he just manages the loose sheet.


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278656
04/29/15 08:16 AM
04/29/15 08:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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We have a small ring on both sides of the trampoline (1cm diameter) about 60 cm from the rear beam (4th or 5th screw on the Nacra).
There is a piece of bungee that goes from side to side via the dolphin string (to keep it from dragging).
On both sides of the bungee there is a loop where a knot on the spinsheet attaches to, this way you have separate sheets which is much easier for the crew.

Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278660
04/29/15 08:50 AM
04/29/15 08:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2001
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42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Thanks Jake, Tony, Bacho;

Jake, my tack line now has a bungee the pulls slock out of the tack line when it's doused and the other end is attached to a ring the halyard goes thru.

Tony,
Dolphin String?


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278668
04/29/15 11:32 AM
04/29/15 11:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Mike and Tripp were gracious enough to share several details of their rigging on their previous F18. Some of it pertains to this discussion.

I sail one of their old boats. My tack line pulls slack out of my spin sheet by way of a couple of rings at the back of the trampoline attached to that bunji on the tack line. When the spin is up, the bunji is slack and it lets the spin halyard free. When the spin goes down and the tack line pulls forward, it tensions the bunji and pulls the halyard back to the rear of the trampoline at two points.

http://www.microwindracing.com/boat.html


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278670
04/29/15 12:47 PM
04/29/15 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
I just tie the ends together with a fisherman's knot.

I don't mind loose sheet on the tramp. I like the crew throwing it back to the skipper, so once the kite is hoisted, the slack in the sheet is being taken up so it's that much close to be sheeted correctly. But, I don't have much on the tramp for lines anyways. Most everything is underneath.


I'm boatless.
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278680
04/30/15 07:15 AM
04/30/15 07:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Jeff.Dusek  Offline
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J

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
We tie the loose ends together with a fisherman's knot as well. We also have the ring from the clew that our retrieval line goes through that was discussed in another thread. That pulls the clew deep into the snuffer and eliminates a lot of the spin sheet slack. After each race I also gather up the excess sheet and stick it under the starboard hiking strap- keeps it nice and neat for one beat at least!

I sailed Tony's boat (I think) with the separate sheets in Thailand. Personally, I much prefer the continuous sheet.


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Jake] #278682
04/30/15 07:27 AM
04/30/15 07:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Originally Posted by Jake
Mike and Tripp were gracious enough to share several details of their rigging on their previous F18. Some of it pertains to this discussion.

I sail one of their old boats. My tack line pulls slack out of my spin sheet by way of a couple of rings at the back of the trampoline attached to that bunji on the tack line. When the spin is up, the bunji is slack and it lets the spin halyard free. When the spin goes down and the tack line pulls forward, it tensions the bunji and pulls the halyard back to the rear of the trampoline at two points.

http://www.microwindracing.com/boat.html


Thanks again Jake.
Yes, that is a great site with decent pictures, I have that page bookmarked and refer to it.
When I watched our CRAW video form 2010 F18's in Racine- It seemed as though they put some bungees to the tack line of the spin, so when it 's hoisted- the lines are slack, and when it's snuffed, it tensions the bungee which goes to the halyard and I think the spin sheets are on it also? NOt sure have ot watch it again.

And thanks Jeff and Karl for your input as well.

Todd

Last edited by Todd_Sails; 04/30/15 07:28 AM.

F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278683
04/30/15 07:53 AM
04/30/15 07:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Jeff.Dusek  Offline
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J

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
When we first got our boat we ran them through a bungee at the back of the tramp but quickly got ride of it. I personally prefer simplicity when it comes to the sheets.


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #278686
04/30/15 08:00 AM
04/30/15 08:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Jeff.Dusek
When we first got our boat we ran them through a bungee at the back of the tramp but quickly got ride of it. I personally prefer simplicity when it comes to the sheets.


This is a rule I apply with everything on my boat. I've been burned too many times by trying to get too cute with a system. If something gets sideways I want to be able to see and fix it quickly on the water.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: David Ingram] #278690
04/30/15 09:16 AM
04/30/15 09:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
does "Cute" = fast?


Jay

Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: waterbug_wpb] #278694
04/30/15 09:37 AM
04/30/15 09:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
does "Cute" = fast?


Not in my opinion, it does look sexy on the beach though and can mess with peoples head and that does have value.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: David Ingram] #278699
04/30/15 11:08 AM
04/30/15 11:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Naples, FL
Originally Posted by David Ingram
it does look sexy on the beach though and can mess with peoples head and that does have value.


sort of like your spandex... the messing with people's heads part at least.


Jay

Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: waterbug_wpb] #278713
04/30/15 12:41 PM
04/30/15 12:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by David Ingram
it does look sexy on the beach though and can mess with peoples head and that does have value.


sort of like your spandex... the messing with people's heads part at least.



That spandex was indeed fast.


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Jake] #278715
04/30/15 01:35 PM
04/30/15 01:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Jake


That spandex was indeed fast.


And everyone is wearing it!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278719
04/30/15 03:29 PM
04/30/15 03:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
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+31NL
Picture of our spinsheet setup: http://1drv.ms/1OJTzNh

Off topic: I took some very cool pics of some cats overhere in Carnac, France:
http://1drv.ms/1OJU6z0

Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278725
04/30/15 07:06 PM
04/30/15 07:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
J
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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J

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Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
Tony, love the new DG Press graphics. Best of luck in Carnac!


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: Spinaker sheet, knot placement options.... [Re: Todd_Sails] #278757
05/03/15 12:38 PM
05/03/15 12:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline
enthusiast
AzCat  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
I run mine continuous and tie a figure 8 knot through the clue of the spinnaker. If I'm doing a long distance race I add a set of blocks at the clue and just tie a figure 8 stopper knot through that for the 221 set up . I noticed none of you guys are running continuous Spinniker sheet like this. Can you tell me why. I have not had mine foul, ever. I like continuous systems for obvious reasons. I run a bungee from side to side on my rear being with a single block on my Spinniker sheet runs through that for take up. At the other end on the clue I have a strop that pulls the sheets into the sock when I take the kite down. Is there a reason that you guys are doing it differently is it just that you don't like the spinnaker sheet running across the tramp or is it just more convenient for you to have the sheet placed where it's easier for the crew to grab it ? It does look very neat and convenient in the picture that I think Jake put up I am assuming that the end of the sheet goes to a bungee under the tramp?
I guess what it does is makes it so that the crew does not have to go lee to grab the sheet correct?

Last edited by azcat; 05/03/15 12:40 PM.

Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
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