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Re: Trailering wind resistance [Re: hobienick] #71204
04/12/06 01:15 PM
04/12/06 01:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Sacramento, Ca
acdavis Offline
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Sacramento, Ca
I totally agree with Nick here. Your trailer essentially drafts behind your car in NASCAR and bicycle racing. An easy way to tell what is causing an increase in drag is to look at the front of your car dead on and see what sticks out above and on the sides.

As far as designing some type of cowl to increase your fuel efficiency it is extremely difficult and I think youd end up spending much more building the stupid thing than youd ever see in fuel savings in a hundred years.

Awhile back there was a group of the best of the best engineers working for Porsche that had supposedly used all of this new cutting edge technology to cut down on drag on some new sports car. When they did the wind tunnel tests they found that they did cut down on the drag. Just for fun they put the car in the wind tunnel backwards and the test results were phenomenally better with the car backwards than forwards. Aerodynamics is difficult for even the best of the best.

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Re: Trailering wind resistance [Re: PTP] #71205
04/12/06 01:25 PM
04/12/06 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Sacramento, Ca
acdavis Offline
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Sacramento, Ca
PTP,

You're probably fine. Just look at your bearing buddies, if they're sunk into the hub a bit then add some grease, if they're popped out all the way then you're fine.

I don't know if it's bad or not, but before a long trip I always give mine a shot of grease till it oozes out a bit, then I wipe the excess off. I also always have some type of grease gun with me for long trips, my bearings are older and the seals tend to leak a bit. You can get a whole tube of marine grade grease at the big orange home improvement store for about 2 bucks and a grease gun for less than $10. With all the money we dump into our boats, this is one of the cheapest and most important investments we can all make.


Re: trailering [Re: Andrew] #71206
04/12/06 01:42 PM
04/12/06 01:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Quote
Quote
Fuel weighs 5.8 to 6.5 lbs. Ethanol is 6.59 lbs. Diesel is 7.0 to 7.3 lbs.


Then fuel weighs 5.8 to 7.3 lbs (per gallon), right?
Depending on whether is gas, gas/alcohol or diesel.


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Re: trailering [Re: steveh] #71207
04/12/06 02:35 PM
04/12/06 02:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
So far from this thread I have gleaned that a narrower axle will tow better than a wider axle, if the tongue length is the same for both and they are both carrying the same load and with the same tongue weight and same percentage of weight forward of the axle.

So, it sounds like the wider the axle, the longer the tongue you need to maintain the same towing stability, as far as tracking straight behind the tow vehicle.

AND, it also sounds like you are better off with a narrower axle because it is easier on your bearings if most of the weight is distributed to the outside of the wheels rather between the wheels and directly over the axle.

Am I getting this image correctly? This is really interesting stuff .

Re: trailering [Re: steveh] #71208
04/12/06 03:30 PM
04/12/06 03:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
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St. Louis, MO
Steve,

I never said a narrow axel will tow better or worse than a wider one. I said that a longer tounge length will have more effect that a change of a few feet in the axel width.

I think you and I are on the same page here:

Longer tounge = more stable trailer.


Nick

Current Boat
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Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: trailering [Re: Mary] #71209
04/12/06 03:40 PM
04/12/06 03:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
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St. Louis, MO
Quote
AND, it also sounds like you are better off with a narrower axle because it is easier on your bearings if most of the weight is distributed to the outside of the wheels rather between the wheels and directly over the axle.


Mary, It doesn't matter how wide or narrow your axel is. The wheel are cantilevered (supported on only one end) no matter what. You need to have an axel/bearing/wheel combo that is designed for the appropriate weight.

Quote
So, it sounds like the wider the axle, the longer the tongue you need to maintain the same towing stability, as far as tracking straight behind the tow vehicle.


That is correct. And as Steve's formula confrimed the longer the tounge the better it will track. In real work application a few foot change in the width of the axel will not have an appreciable effect on the stability of a trailer with a 16' tounge length.


Nick

Current Boat
Looking for one

Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: trailering [Re: hobienick] #71210
04/12/06 04:02 PM
04/12/06 04:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 141
Panama City Beach, FL
steveh Offline
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steveh  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 141
Panama City Beach, FL
Quote
The tracking of the trailer has very little (if anything) to do with the stance of the wheels.


I took stance to mean width. If you meant camber, well, having the tires cambered inward helps stability, too. So does toe-in.


Re: trailering [Re: steveh] #71211
04/12/06 04:24 PM
04/12/06 04:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 66
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
ReefedOne Offline
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Posts: 66
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
PTP:
Quote
I have brand new springs/bearings/hubs/tires (12) that were installed about 6 months ago and I have maybe trailered 100 miles since. Do I need to do anything to the bearings before a long trip?


Its not so much the mileage (minimal in your case), but how many times have they been SUBMERGED IN WATER at the boat ramp, DEEP puddles, etc. during those 6 months? Axle grease is water RESISTANT, to a point, but if water STAYS in there, the churning at 80MPH will eventually cause the soap-base of the grease to "mayonnaise" and break-down... then, the "bad thing" happens... almost always at a very inconvenient--and even dangerous--time and place.

You're probably fine, but hey, pump some MORE grease in there and CHECK closely if the overflow that oozes out is grease... or WATER? Even if they have NOT been dunked during that period, if you live in a humid climate, there's condensation too...

Re: bearing buddy CAPS [Re: ReefedOne] #71212
04/12/06 04:31 PM
04/12/06 04:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 66
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
ReefedOne Offline
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Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Is it just me, or am I seeing more and more bearing buddy type hubs withOUT the rubber slip caps on them? No, they don't keep out water, but they do keep out SAND, which is important, given the sliding piston, the need to keep grease nipple clean, etc.

Re: trailering [Re: hobienick] #71213
04/12/06 04:32 PM
04/12/06 04:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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bvining  Offline
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Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
Quote
Longer tounge = more stable trailer.


longer tongue makes it easier to back it up.

Ever tried to back up a short little trailer? very hard if you're used to a long tongue.

Re: Trailering wind resistance [Re: acdavis] #71214
04/12/06 05:56 PM
04/12/06 05:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 465
Oxford, UK
pdwarren Offline
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Oxford, UK
Quote

Awhile back there was a group of the best of the best engineers working for Porsche that had supposedly used all of this new cutting edge technology to cut down on drag on some new sports car. When they did the wind tunnel tests they found that they did cut down on the drag. Just for fun they put the car in the wind tunnel backwards and the test results were phenomenally better with the car backwards than forwards.


So that's why the boxster looks the same which ever end you're looking at...

Paul

Re: Trailering wind resistance [Re: pdwarren] #71215
04/12/06 06:21 PM
04/12/06 06:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
SunnyZ Offline
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SunnyZ  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Upstate, South Carolina
Quote
Quote

Awhile back there was a group of the best of the best engineers working for Porsche that had supposedly used all of this new cutting edge technology to cut down on drag on some new sports car. When they did the wind tunnel tests they found that they did cut down on the drag. Just for fun they put the car in the wind tunnel backwards and the test results were phenomenally better with the car backwards than forwards.


So that's why the boxster looks the same which ever end you're looking at...

Paul


I have noticed that cars are starting to resemble jelly beans. What is with that body style? The next time you drive down the street look at them. Jelly beans...Mine is Kiwi.

Re: Trailering wind resistance [Re: SunnyZ] #71216
04/12/06 06:25 PM
04/12/06 06:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Quote
I have noticed that cars are starting to resemble jelly beans. What is with that body style? The next time you drive down the street look at them. Jelly beans...Mine is Kiwi.
Aerodynamics. Less drag means lower fuel usage. Vans have the same aerodynamic characteristics as a sheet of plywood.


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Re: trailering [Re: Mary] #71217
04/12/06 06:40 PM
04/12/06 06:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
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C2 Mike  Offline
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Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
Quote
Which works better for trailer stability: having a wide axle with the wheels far apart or having a narrow axle with the wheels close together? And whichever way is better, WHY?


The further apart your wheels are, the more stable you are on the road. As somebody else mentioned, draw bar length (how far back the wheels are relative to your car) will reduce any tendancy for the trailer to weave all over the road.

Furthermore, larger diameter wheels are better than the smaller ones as the bearings are not working anywhere near as hard. I use 15" car rims on mine. Went to a wrecker and found 3 mag wheels with good tyres for $25 the lot The negative is your boat is higher off the ground but then if you match the trailer wheels to your car, you can use the car spare if you ever get a flat

Tiger Mike

Re: trailering [Re: steveh] #71218
04/13/06 07:01 AM
04/13/06 07:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
I did mean width, but I as said in a later post the 2-4 foot difference in width is not going to make any appreciable difference on a trail with a 16 foot plus tounge length. On a much shorter (5-6 feet) utility trailer, yes the width will have a profound difference.

An easy was to exaggerate the effect of axel width and tounge length is to back the trailer up. The easier it is (removing practice and skill at backing trailers up from the variables) the more stable it will be behind your tow vehicle.


Nick

Current Boat
Looking for one

Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: trailering [Re: hobienick] #71219
04/13/06 07:06 AM
04/13/06 07:06 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
just heard from Trey last night on his way down to spring fever. One of the TheMightyHobie18 trailer axles blew up. Not the bearings, he said the axle just folded in three places.

Re: trailering [Re: C2 Mike] #71220
04/13/06 02:25 PM
04/13/06 02:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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"I use 15" car rims on mine. Went to a wrecker and found 3 mag wheels with good tyres for $25 the lot"

I don't know with a light weight cat trailer if it makes much difference...but for trailers in general you are not suppose to use car tires because the sidewalls are too flexible in comparison to trailer tires.


Regards,
Bob

Re: trailering [Re: Seeker] #71221
04/13/06 04:56 PM
04/13/06 04:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
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C2 Mike  Offline
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Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
Quote
"I use 15" car rims on mine. Went to a wrecker and found 3 mag wheels with good tyres for $25 the lot"

I don't know with a light weight cat trailer if it makes much difference...but for trailers in general you are not suppose to use car tires because the sidewalls are too flexible in comparison to trailer tires.

Regards,
Bob


The average car tyre will have a working load of approx 1200 lbs and my trailer weight is around 1000 lbs per wheel so the loadings will be similar. (I usually have 2 boats and all my stuff in the trailer). You should use a tyre designed for whatever load you are putting on it.

Tiger Mike

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Re: trailering [Re: C2 Mike] #71222
04/13/06 08:27 PM
04/13/06 08:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
"The average car tyre will have a working load of approx 1200 lbs and my trailer weight is around 1000 lbs per wheel so the loadings will be similar. (I usually have 2 boats and all my stuff in the trailer). You should use a tyre designed for whatever load you are putting on it."

Hi Mike
It's not so much the load, as the flex of the sidewall...from what I have read on the subject, the sidewalls are much stiffer on dedicated trailer tires which helps to keep trailer sway to a minimum...granted this is a much bigger issue with a heavy utility or power boat trailers.

Regards,
Bob

Re: trailering [Re: Seeker] #71223
04/13/06 09:55 PM
04/13/06 09:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
SteveT Offline
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Colorado
So here's a little twist: How many people tow a train, as in a camper and the boat or a fifth wheel and the boat. A few of our fleet members do this successfully with the fifth-wheel types having better luck. Also, how many people use a sway brace. Reese makes a really good one that I'm thinking of installing.


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