Originally Posted by waynemarlow
Ok we now know that the outside boat should have given room, well I think we have. I had an almost exact same scenario recently with a Mustoo skiff at a mark, we both arrived in the zone almost simultaneously and yes as he was the slower boat ( just ) I gave him room to round the mark.

But these skiffies are incrediably competative and he carried on straight ahead to ensure he slowed me down over the water enough to win on handicap ( yes these top class sailors do think of these things ). My question is at what stage can I just luff him up because he's being a prat or can he, as he did, just carry on straight ahead ( which incidentally let 3 other boats through behind.


By carry on straight ahead do you mean he luffed up to a close hauled course but continued to sit on your air, or he rounded the mark then continued to sail below a close hauled course? These are two different scenarios. In trying to answer your question we need several definitions and a couple rules:

Mark-Room Room for a boat to sail to the mark, and then room to sail her
proper course while at the mark. However, mark-room does not include
room to tack unless the boat is overlapped to windward and on the inside of the boat required to give mark-room.

Proper Course A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in
the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term. A boat
has no proper course before her starting signal.

Room The space a boat needs in the existing conditions while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlike way.

11 ON THE SAME TACK, OVERLAPPED
When boats are on the same tack and overlapped, a windward boat
shall keep clear of a leeward boat.

17 ON THE SAME TACK; PROPER COURSE
If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull
lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above
her proper course while they remain on the same tack and overlapped
within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails
astern of the other boat. This rule does not apply if the overlap
begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear.


From your description it sounds like there was an overlap when the first boat entered the zone. The outside boat was therefore required to give the inside boat room to sail to the mark, and her proper course while at the mark. It sounds like you gave the boat room to sail to the mark. Proper course is defined as A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term.. Therefore, I believe the proper course of the inside boat is to round the mark, and promptly luff to a close hauled course, as this is the course she would sail in the absence of other boats. I also believe this allows the inside boat to make a tactical rounding, as that would be the course they would sail in the absence of other boats, and thus their proper course.

The term at the mark is slightly ambiguous, but I generally take it to mean when the hull is overlapped with the mark, and luffing up would create contact with the mark. It is un-seamanlike to luff a boat into a mark.

So, to answer your question, if the boat did not luff up to a close hauled after rounding the mark, I believe they would not be sailing their proper course (assuming the next mark is to windward), and would then be violating rule 11 as a windward boat.

Now, after you have left the mark, rules 11 and 17 govern the situation, and how the overlapped was established is important. The windward boat must always keep clear under rule 11, but rule 17 places restrictions on the actions of the leeward boat. If the overlapped was established from clear astern (likely as you said you were the faster boat) then a rule 17 overlap exists. In that case the leeward boat cannot sail above their proper course. The fact that it is the leeward boat's proper course is important here.

So, if after rounding the mark, and while the boats were overlapped, the windward boat failed to keep clear, causing the leeward boat to sail below their proper course, the windward boat is in the wrong.

Does that make sense?


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