You guys still don't understand do you ! ... And you probably never will, but here goes.

Without building a strong organisation around the F12 there will be no F12 class, just a bunch of amateurs fiddling around. We had that for 40 years now and no viable youth class was ever established for catamarans. You think there is a correlation here.

With regard to patents, nobody is asking for patents. Hell the laser dinghy can't not be patented in anyway, neither can the succesfully lay claim to the name Laser. But all that pretty irrelevant as you can' participate in any of the Laser class events unless you own a boat that is officially recognized by the class and a court of law can do absolutely nothing about that. There is no law that forbids an organisation from excluding you from the class if you do not satisfy the limits set in their class rules. Basically, legal jumbo is irrelevant.

You guys are all over the place and have no focus.

With a class hierarchy (and that includes laying the ownership rights somewhere) we simply don't have a class. If a design doesn't have a class then that design (and the concept associated with it) has a negligiable chance of succeeding.

All you guys are doing right now (contributions ?) is tearing the project apart like a bunch of wolves. And when it fails because of it we can all be very proud of ourselves that another opportunity was lost for a viable entry c.q. youth cat class again.

That is what we are talking about here. If I was getting off on power and control then I sure as hell wouldn't waste my time on creating a new sailing class. Such is project is more pain then it is really worth and I'm doing it because I can and I feel there is a need for it, call it passion.

For it to succeed I need control, I need to be able to control the creation of the class, its growth and the money flow so I can reinvest portions of it into the class. THIS IS ALL FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CLASS WE ARE CREATING.

I'm intending to use the money earned to fund the class organisation and sell the more expensive components against cost. I'm going for advantages of production on scale. It will be alot cheaper and more performant if the class designs and orders the mast sections and then sells it on to the sailors. For alu extrusions there is a minimal batch size of 250 to 500 kg. That is 30-60 F12 masts in one go with a upfront investment of several thousant bucks. If there is no control then I can't justify some private party of investing in this as the risks of you guys running around for alternatives makes this economically very risky. Same with sails, rudders, etc.

Then the so called contributions. Most are of the form :"Hey, why not have only 1 rule that regulates overall length and everything else goes ?"

Like that the best we can achieve is Grob coming with a 100 kg rotomoulded F12, Retired Geek with a 50 kg all carbon foiling F12, Phill with an underpowered F12 and Wouter with a 60 kg F12 made from commonly available materials and having a more crude deep V-ed hull.

What do you will happen we we go to some national sailing association to make them aware of our F12 youth class and ask for their support ? They will laugh us out of the room so hard that it will hurt for years to come. And to top it off we have ones again confirmed to the mono guys that cat sailors are crazed lunies that disagree amonh themselves so much that can't even get one thing like a simple class right.

F12 was always intended to be more then just what a private persons wants for his personal situation. It is intended to because the international youth class for catamaran sailing (and not for some local aussie sailing club project) and a feeder class to the currently existing international cat classes like the H16's, A's, F16's, F18's and Tornado's.

Also guys like Phill, Paul and Wouter have spend several thousand of bucks (out of their own pocket) to get the F16 class up and going. I for one will never see any of that back again. Phill has his building fees to recouperate some of his costs. I get posters dissing me for something they could never do or are even willing to do themselves. Maybe, you all should compare your "hey, what if ... " postings and drawings to persons actually putting in the time and money to work out the details of each design, build it and build the class.

Now I'm going to do another class creations project, I'm one of the very few who can and who is evem willing to do it.

Now are going to help me make this a success or not ?

Wouter