Originally Posted by chrisun
Originally Posted by Tornado

Unfortunately, no, this is not just a monohull thing! Cat sailors are also quite susceptible to the "holier than thou" mindset.

And it's not just these elite teams...had a less than pleasant experience at a recent local event sailing as the odd boat out in a fleet of F18s.


It's kind of difficult to comment on your situation, Darryn, since we don't yet know the details, but I can comment on the question in a broader sense based on my own experience.

I too sailed the Santa Barbara Wine and Roses Regatta in the F-18 fleet, and I race my own cat in a variety of local regattas including those put on by ABYC where I am sharing the course with F-18s, H16 and A cats among others.

My advice is to minimize encounters with the dinghies/other fleets as much as possible. Anytime there are enough cats to merit your own start you should request it. With your own start the RC should be able to put enough distance between you and the dinghy fleet to avoid encounters at mark roundings and upwind or down. Whenever possible I would avoid starting in any start that includes a class fleet.

Everyone loses when you mix it up with another class. You foul them (in terms of affecting their intra-class race) and even if you win... what are you winning? When you examine the purpose for them being on the course versus you, they are sailing a completely different race than you are - even if not thus represented on paper.

Sure you could press the rules, but this will only serve to aggravate the situation. It won't teach people the rules. Instead it will only encourage them to conclude something negative about you or about cat sailors in general.

The key thing to keep in mind is that your purpose for racing is quite different from the purpose that those sailing in a class have in mind when they sign up to race a regatta. They are out to compete between their group. You are not going to win friends by crashing that party. Better to find a group of people like you who want to race handicap. Then you, as part of that group (handicap fleet), are all on the race course for the same reason too.

Even if you do end up in a mixed (handicap) fleet, it's still not always easy. As an example, the last time I sailed my boat in an ABYC regatta, I overtook the three fleets/starts in front of me before I got to the weather mark. Each of those fleets that I overtook was a class start. Therefore I tried to be respectful of the competition within those fleets by not pressing my rights (e.g. P/S) except when not doing so would result in gassing the fleet for longer periods of time than by crossing.

I think a respectful and courteous attitude on the course in these situations will earn you more respect and a better time than pressing your rights at the cost of affecting the outcome of other fleets.

Mike's situation at Santa Barbara is a perfect example of this. While the F-18 fleet was happy to see another boat out on the water, the fact that Mike was mixing it up among the F-18 fleet up and down and forcing boats to make maneuvers that tactically they would otherwise not make, means that he was affecting the results of the F-18 fleet: a fleet that he was not even scored with. He was certainly not endearing himself by so doing. And frankly, I can't think of one person from the F-18 fleet who said, "I'm glad the Tornado is sailing with the F-18s." The outcome of this is that Mike walked away feeling unwelcome and the F-18 fleet felt imposed upon. Who wins in this situation?? No one. The RC should never have considered this, and Mike shouldn't have asked to sail with the F-18s.

The trouble here arose because neither the F-18 fleet organizers nor Mike considered that in reality the F-18s and Mike were there for different purposes. Only superficially did it make sense to mix the T in with the F-18s, and no one won out by doing this.

A good RC making good decisions is the best way to avoid these situations. If you still end up encountering other fleets on the course - just be considerate of why you are each there (i.e. if you're racing handicap on the same course as class fleets).

Respectfully,
Christopher


When I race at the club Mosquitos have there own start, we usually get 10 or so Mosquitos and often we are the largest class. The racing amongst the Mozzys is very close, we stick to the rules and basically we all get along with each other.

I am very respectful of other classes, particularly the juniors classes that we often share a race course with, I absolutely dont want to put any kids off sailing, I have three kids of my own and see how they react when the nutters are screaming at us on the course. I am very flexible with the rules if I have ROW and young or inexperienced sailors makes a mistake that affects my race. However there are some situations when sailing against adults who have won National championships that cant be explained away by inexperience or lack of attention.
For example approaching windward mark on starboard tack with 200 metres to go and a Sharpie comes in on port, refusing to give ROW, forcing me to tack to avoid a collision or having an inside overlap at a mark, their bow level with my centrebord case, 4 boat lengths from the mark with me ending up sailing inside the mark as their bow hits the outboard side of my rear beam when they turn into the mark.

Rearranging the order of the starts doestn't fix the problem with races lasting 90 minutes, a mix of triangle and windward returns and 60 boats on the course boats will always meet at the marks and layline approaches to the marks.

I hope I have explained the situation better, I'm not talking about minor infractions, I'm talking about other classes blatantly ignoring the ROW rules because I am sailing a catamaran.

I also own a Flying Fifteen so I have no real bias.

Our sport is self regulating, its the individuals personal level of integrity that makes us do a circle when we hit a mark even if no one sees it, with all the focus on winning and perhaps a slide of some individuals level of integrity the end result is some sailors just dont follow the rules.
Protesting one boat in a fleet where obeying the rules seems to be optional might make that one boat more careful but I have found over the last two years of sailing at that club the more waves I make the more my boat gets damaged in the rigging area and more anonymous threatening notes get stuck to my car windshield at the club.

Moving on from the club is the right move for me, my closest club has a friendly Flying fifteen fleet and theres cat club that races Sundays 1 hours drive away, will try and get down there sometimes to keep my skills honed for the Nationals.

Thanks for all the replies and advice, lack of sportsmanship in some classes is a taboo subject around here, so it good to discuss it and find out I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Darryn


Last edited by Darryn; 08/26/09 05:35 AM. Reason: spelling