I agree... (small d democratic) The idiot Bernie supporters think that the PRIVATE Democratic Party... must be completely small d democratic... Nope... its a choice... a private party can function through smoke filled rooms as it once did. ...be much more in tune with what the founders wanted BTW ...


The devil in all of this political organizational stuff is... an attempt to answer "what do you do about human self interest when you try to govern".

Hey... the founders understood self interest.. they made SURE that the constitution allowed self interest to petition the government.

So, exactly WHO do these politicians represent. you say they don't represent the people... and/or the people's interest.

I understand and can identify a real estate developers self interest.... a teacher's self interest, a miner's self interest, a pornographers self interest. Romeny argued the buisness's were people to.... I have NO idea what the "peoples" interest is.

I can see how a politician represents my interest as a ____ .
I can ID interests for any group in the country.... eg beach access for small catamaran sailors.... VERSUS owners of coastal waterfront property. What does a politician do to represent the people's interest?

So, ... How does that self interest work with the "People's" interest?

My view is that Trump was crystal clear about who's interest he represented in the election... He is on TV now talking about his group of voters and how he will turn it around for them ...
Now of course... tomorrow, he will be trying to obfuscate that stand and say... he is for the people's interest..

same as Obama, Same as Bush, Same as Clinton, Same as Bush, Same as Reagan, Same as Carter, same as Ford, same as Nixon, same as Johnson.

Can you say... ANY of these presidents served the "people's interest in anything but name only... No!... they favored and disparaged lots of things.... and BS'd that as THOUGH it was for the "people's interest".

It's trivial to find opinion and many a fact on how each of these guys did not serve the "people's " interest....

So... IMO, I think the people's interest is a unicorn... and we would love to live in the fairy tale world of unicorns.... but that is not reality.

Seems to me...stop the fairy tale about the "people's interest" and just get down and fight it out...Put it out there... your self interest is XXX and as far as you are concerned... THAT is the people's interest.

Now if you want to talk about principals and values not interests... see the voting rights debate above. We pledge to American Principals.. (everyone's values are their values)

So perhaps the best way to deal with the unicorn called "the Peoples Interest" is contrasting Nixon and Clinton with respect to American PRINCIPALS.
When Nixon attacked the separation of powers... he was impeached ... going to lose and resigned instead. THAT was the only clear cut example of politicians operating on the American PRINCIPALS... some "peoples" interest in nixon finishing his term were killed. He WAS POPULAR until the end .. ... the universal American Principal in protecting and following the constitution as it has evolved through legitimate proscribed means was preserved.

Was it in the American Principle to impeach Clinton for an extramarital blow job and a gotcha legal proceeding answer? History would say nope... Historians have it down right now as partisan self interest. The public had clinton at 60 plus favorable through it all.

Was it on American Principles that Trump argued and promoted the fake news that Obama was illegitimate as president because he was born in Kenya? Or Self interest? Perhaps the people's interest???

Hmm...

IMO, when somebody waves the "peoples interest" at me... I take another hard look at it... Usually... its somebody's self interest at stake and not the People's Principles embodied in the constitution!